Prabhupāda: Yes. That is next. First of all, if I say that "Here is a man of knowledge," where is the objection? Now, whether you are man of knowledge, that will be tested next. But if I introduce you that "Here is a man of knowledge . . ." Similarly if I say, "Here is a man who knows Vedas," so why the objection? Knowledge is for everyone. Why do they take, "Oh, Vedas, oh, it is Hindu"? Immediately you reject.
Dr. Kneupper: I don't think it's so much a question of rejecting the Vedas . . .
Prabhupāda: No, Vedas, they do not know what is Vedas. They think it is Hindu. This is the difficulty. As soon as you say "Bhagavad-gītā," "Oh, it is Hindu idea."
Dr. Kneupper: Well, many, many people do . . .
Prabhupāda: But that means they do not know what is the meaning of Bhagavad-gītā, what is the meaning of Vedas. Unnecessarily they put some outside . . . Just like they are doing now. They do not know what is knowledge, and they are accusing us that we are brainwashing. We are forbidding our devotees, "Don't eat meat." Oh, they are taking it: "It is revolutionary. Eh? How these men, they are stopping?" (someone enters) Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Indian man (4): (Bengali) (break)
Prabhupāda: So this is difficulty. If I say, "Here is a person who knows mathematics," why there should be . . . Any person who is interested in mathematics will welcome him. So similarly, here is Vedic knowledge. Vedic knowledge means real knowledge. Here is Bhagavad-gītā, the knowledge of God, but they misunderstand it. They think, "Oh, we have got another God." How God can be another? So people should be sober, that we are giving books. They should understand. And it is accepted by the educated class, big, big professors, big, big philosophers. It is not blind faith. Just like this version of Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13): "As we are changing body even in this duration of life, similarly, when this body is finished, then another body." So where is the difficulty to understand? But they will say, "It is Hindu idea." Fact we are presenting, that "You are changing your body. When you came out of the womb of your mother, the body was so small. And then little bigger body, little bigger body, little bigger body. Now you are full-grown young man." So the body is changing, everyone can understand. But I can understand also that "I had so big . . . small body and this body. Then body is changing; I am existing." Then where is the difficulty of the transmigration of the soul?
Dr. Kneupper: Many people do accept.
Prabhupāda: But as soon as we say . . . "Oh, this is Hindu idea"; reject immediately. This is science, and they are taking "Hindu idea."
Indian man (2): The problem is that identification only . . . (indistinct) . . . Otherwise it is universal philosophy.
Prabhupāda: It is universal, but they are taking it as Indian.
Indian man (2): In order to identify that, Vedic, let's say Indian, actually that is not Indian.
Prabhupāda: No, whatever it may be, knowledge is knowledge. It may be Indian or American, it doesn't matter. Just like university. Some student from India go to university in America to study higher knowledge. So that means that because he has gone to America, that is American knowledge? Knowledge is knowledge. So they should take on this background. But they are thinking that we are spoiling their children, brainwashing, controlling the mind, because against their principle, against their uncivilized way of life: meat-eating, illicit sex, intoxication. This is uncivilized life. Why a man, civilized man, shall eat meat? He can prepare so many nice things. He has learned how to produce food, food grain. When they are uncivilized—there is no food; they do not know how to grow food—they can eat animal in the jungle. But if after becoming civilized, if you are eating the same thing, then what is the difference between civilization and not civilization? You have learned. And especially in your America you can get all nice foodstuff. You have got sufficient grains, sufficient fruits, sufficient vegetables, sufficient . . . Everything sufficient. Why you should eat meat? This is uncivilized life. They could not give up the uncivilized way of life. And when you teach that "You become civilized. Give up this all nonsense. Don't eat." "Oh, it is brainwashing." You see? We are teaching them to become civilized, and they are taking it brainwashing.
Dr. Kneupper: Is that a teaching of the Bhagavad-gītā, that one should not eat meat?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not . . . Meat-eating is third-class man's eating. It is not denied. Amedhya. But to give us our life, don't kill cows, because it gives you milk, very substantial food. If you want to eat meat, you can eat the hogs and dogs. But don't kill the cows. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). This is special. It is not forbidding meat-eating, but don't eat cows' flesh. That is loss. It is a great loss to the human society. If they do not have sufficient milk production, then their brain will be dull. They will not be able to understand subtle things. Therefore it is better to avoid it. But if you cannot avoid, you can eat some inferior, useless animals. But don't touch the cows. This is Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says go-rakṣya. He never says pig-rakṣya. You can eat pig. You can eat the goats, the lambs. There are so many small useless animals. They are eating dogs also. The Chinese people, they eat dogs.
So you can eat dogs, hogs, so many other animals. But don't touch the cows. This is God's instruction. And they are advertising that "These Hindus, they are so fool, they are worshiping an animal, a cow." They do not know what is the economic value of this cow. In the beginning of your life you want milk immediately in the morning. And you are killing the mother. You are civilized? Do you think? You take milk up to the point of death. In South Africa, before killing the cows, they drag out milk and then send it. Milk is important, but because they are uncivilized, they do this. You take milk. Instead of killing, you prepare so many nice things from milk which is good for brain, good for intelligence. But they do not know because uncivilized. Foolish fourth-class men. So we are trying to bring them to become first-class men, and they are accusing of brainwash. "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." We are teaching that "These boys, they are becoming first class." Anyone will worship them. How nice they look, how behavior, how their character.