Śyāmasundara: But if everything was telling me from the moment of my birth, my parents, slogans on the walls, everything was saying...
Prabhupāda: No. Even if you have not heard... But you cannot change that opinion. Suppose my parents have taught me that "There is God and we are controlled," so you cannot change this. You say that you are not controlled. You prove that you are not controlled. Then you can say, "My parents have taught me wrongly." You are becoming old. You are becoming diseased. You will have to die. You have taken birth under certain system. So you are controlled. My parents have taught me that "There is God, who is supreme controller, and we are all controlled." Now you change this first of all. You are talking so nice thing, but you first of all say that you are not controlled. That is our proposition. If you say that you are not controlled, then you are mad.
Śyāmasundara: No. I would admit that I am controlled. Everyone in my Communist state is controlled because we work under the...
Prabhupāda: Apart from Communist state, by nature's law... You have spoken about nature's law. So we are controlled by the nature's law. Who can deny it? When there is severe cold, I am controlled. When there is severe heat, I am controlled. When there is epidemic, I am controlled. When there is famine, I am controlled. When there is flood, I am controlled. So how you can say that you are not controlled? You are not independent. The basic principle is that you are not independent.
Śyāmasundara: Mao Tse Tung uses this as the basis of his...
Prabhupāda: Basis is that you are controlled. That is mistake.
Śyāmasundara: His methodology is to present slogans to the people...
Prabhupāda: But you may manufacture slogans. First of all, let us talk on the principles. Everyone is controlled. How Mao can deny it?
Śyāmasundara: He wants to be the controller. He can control everyone's...
Prabhupāda: He is himself controlled. How he can be controller? If you are blind, how you can lead? I am also blind. You must have eyes; then you can control.
Śyāmasundara: He thinks in this philosophy, Marxist philosophy, that that is the truth so that he can present slogans to the people in such a way that they become controlled by that truth.
Prabhupāda: What is the value of your slogan if you are yourself controlled? Our point is that if you are yourself blind, how you can lead other blind men?