Guest (2) (American man): Who is a śūdra? Is it determined by jāti?
Prabhupāda: Yes, one who is seeking service like dog. The dog goes door to door and moves his tail: "Give me some food. Give me some. . ."
Guest (2): Is it determined by jāti, by birth?
Prabhupāda: No. His quality. . . He has no quality.
Guest (2): Spiritual type.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not spiritual type, it. . . material type. He cannot maintain himself independently. Nowadays people are being educated highly, but if there is no service he has no value.
Guest (2): So the tamasi.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He has no value. I have seen one doctor of chemistry—he could not get any service—in Allahabad. His name was Raghunatha Mitri, Dr. Raghunatha Mitri. So he was living at the cost of his father-in-law and making some soap and going to the shop for selling, doctor. That means he could not get any service. Now his independence was to manufacture some soap as ordinary man is doing. But he was chemist; he could not do anything. He could manufacture some soap. So in spite of high education, because he could not get a good job, he had no value. That is the dog. The dogs, if they do not get a master, nice, then he's street dog. He is lean and thin and no shelter, no. . .
Guest (1): That is what is happening. . .
Prabhupāda: Yes.