Hayagrīva: This is the continuation of the notations on Descartes.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Hayagrīva: Descartes, Rene Descartes, the French... Descartes writes, "The power of forming a good judgment and of distinguishing the true from the false, which is, properly speaking, what is called good sense or reason, is by nature equal in all men. God has given to each of us some light with which to distinguish truth from error." Now in the West this has been called conscience, and Descartes uses the term "reason." Now is this simply a form of mental speculation, or is the...
Prabhupāda: No. Mental speculation should be there. It is not actually speculation but it is reasoning. Just like if we study our own body, whether I am this lump of matter, namely this skin, bone and stool, urine and muscle and blood... If we analyze this body we find practically these things. So the reasoning is that whether combination of these things can give life. So externally we have got all these things. Blood we can get from slaughterhouse, and bone we can collect, or you can manufacture and set up an instrument with these things. Will it be, bring life? So the reasoning is life is different from this lump of matter. That is reasoning. Why...
Hayagrīva: But he...
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Hayagrīva: He says reason is by nature equal in all men. Now isn't reasoning power different in different men?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise why it is called "This man is intelligent," other man is called "You are ass." So when, on this reasoning platform, when one comes to the conclusion that the living force within the body is different from this lump of matter, then he is on the human platform. And if he keeps himself that this life means combination of these material things, then he remains an animal. This is the reasoning. Where is the life? You analyze beginning from the breathing up to the urine and stool—where you will find life? That is human reasoning. Human civilization is now advanced in analyzing things in the chemical laboratory. So if we analyze this breathing, it is air. So you replace this air, let life come again. What is this breathing? Breathing is simply exhaling and inhaling some air. So by machine, by electric, what is called, batteries, let it work and it will act accordingly, breathing. But does it mean it will bring life? So they say breathing is stopped; therefore life is stopped. So breathing can be revived, but where is the life? They say the blood has become white. So blood can be colored. So anything of this body, analyze perfectly and bring life; then you say that life is combination of this matter. You cannot bring it; therefore it must be concluded that life is different from this combination of matter. This is reasoning. This is human reasoning. And if you still keep yourself that this body is, it is everything, then you are animal. This is reasoning. That is the verdict of the Vedic..., sa eva go-kharaḥ. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). If one is thinking still that he is this body, he is no better than animal. There is no reasoning. Who can challenge this? Analyze every part of the body. Where is life? Hm? What do you think? Is that reasoning or not?
Hayagrīva: Yes. Now the reason is one thing, but intellection is another there.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Hayagrīva: Intellection and reason you would call the same?
Prabhupāda: Intellect?
Hayagrīva: Intellection and reason and the Supersoul speaking from within?
Prabhupāda: The Supersoul, soul...
Hayagrīva: That's something different.
Prabhupāda: ...that we shall consider later. First of all come to the reasoning, that this combination of air, water and bone and muscle and urine and stool is not life. You first of all come to that, then we have to find out that what is that soul. First of all you come to this conclusion. "This is not," neti. "This is not." Then what is the positive thing, that we have to search, athāto. That is brahma-jijñāsā. What is that Brahman? It is not matter. Then we will come to the conclusion that Brahman is the origin of this matter, because the matter is developing on the soul. That is also reasoning. Simply sex does not create pregnancy unless there is soul. They have so many times sex, so not every time there is pregnancy. Of course, it is expected, but... Anyway, when the soul is injected in the womb of the woman, then the pregnancy means the matter develops, and that we can see outside the pregnancy also—when the child comes out it develops a body. And if this child comes out dead, there is no development. Therefore the soul is the basic principle of material development. That means a seed of a tree, so you sow it, and if the soul takes shelter of the seed, then it grows to a plant; otherwise does not grow. The same seed, if you fry it and sow it, then it will not, because unsuitable for the soul to remain in that seed. So athāto brahma jijñāsā janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1).
So the matter is coming out on the positive existence of the soul. This is to be learned. Without soul being present within the womb of the woman there is no pregnancy, there is no development of the matter. We can see the same thing, that the child is developing or changing the body because the soul is there. This is reasoning. Where is the difficulty? So the philosophy, first of all find out what is that external thing which is the living force. By analyzing this material body we don't find any symptom of life either from breathing or from blood or from (indistinct). Therefore something extra. Now you find out what is that extra. That extra you will find out if you come to the right platform—that it is soul, jīvātmā. And on the basis of jīvātmā, that is very minute. If you take authority of the Vedic śās..., very, very minute, one ten-thousandth part of the top of the hair, a very small particle that we cannot find it where it is in the body. It is very small. So with your material eyes and material instruments it can not be found. We are missing. But this thing is there, we get information from the śāstra. Therefore the life is going on, it is so powerful. Just like the sun is ninety-three million miles away, but it is keeping the whole universe illuminated. Similarly, although the soul is very, very small particle, it is keeping this body alive, fresh. So by material analysis you cannot find out, because it is so small you cannot see that. But it is to be accepted that because that small particle is there, this body has developed. So the conclusion is that matter comes on account of soul, not that combination of matter produces soul. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. First of all the inquiry, "What is that living force?" Then the conclusion is next, that on account of this living force this material body has come. Therefore the conclusion should be that God is the supreme living force on which the cosmic manifestation has developed. That is our theory, that Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu is there, then the universe comes into existence, and Brahmā is born and he creates so many.