Prabhupāda: First try to point out as many as you can. And our view is they are wholesale mistaken. They are imperfect, speculating.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There's one strange point here about calculating this that dawn of Brahmā about two billion years old. Now strangely these geological calculations, they also claim that at that time the first free oxygen in the air appeared, first time. The beginning there was no free oxygen. We can accept that? (laughter) Now from here, anyway, this is the basic point, that once this oxygen appeared, free oxygen, then the living entities began to appear slowly. That is the whole theory of this chemical evolution. The results for the chronology is just put it that dawn of Brahmā is two billion years old?
Prabhupāda: You can carefully read the Second Canto, Bhāgavatam, Third Canto. You'll get all the knowledge, how things develop. It is a question of development. So maybe there was something missing, but after development it is manifested there. That is possible.
Rūpānuga: In the day of, one day of Brahmā, there are fourteen Manus. And in the course of creation, re-creation of the same species from the previous day—they are re-creating the same species—it takes, there's some time, maybe one Manu, there's some species that are finished, but the next Manu...
Prabhupāda: That doesn't mean time. What is this Manu?
Rūpānuga: No, no, I'm saying this is what really happened, right? So we were thinking that we could show one day, this is one day, one day of Brahmā...
Prabhupāda: No, you do not think what is actually there, you can say. You do not be a speculator.
Rūpānuga: No, no, but from the Bhāgavatam we have taken it, and broken down the day of Brahmā.
Prabhupāda: Whether they will accept it or not, that is the question.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We don't worry about whether they accept it or not.
Prabhupāda: That is, but we have taken that they are talking all nonsense. And whatever we present, they'll take it as mythology.
Rūpānuga: But like Mādhava Prabhu pointed out, we have to make some explanation. We should explain because they...
Prabhupāda: That you do, but the position is like this. Our conclusion is that whatever they are saying, that is imperfect. That is not possible. And that is a fact. Therefore they change, after fifty years, they change. Because it's speculation. Therefore we say totally they are wrong, and they will take totally "From mythology," like that, this is going on.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now one aspect in that, now in Christian group also, some are trying to preach that these things are created by God, but they have a problem there.
Prabhupāda: That's a fact, everything is created by God. It is being done by one, that Supreme. We are simply studying how it is acting. Otherwise everything is being done by Him. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). That is a fact. How He is working so nicely, that is the subject matter of our study, or something is explained in the śāstra or something has been studied by these material scientists, but the things are being done by the supreme arrangement of manager. That is a fact.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The difficulty in this Christian aspect is that they claim that it was created about five thousand years ago. That is the reason why we want to bring up this...
Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. (laughter)
Rūpānuga: These Creationists preach that?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Creationists.
Rūpānuga: Gish(?) preaches that? Five thousand years ago, literally? Do we want to make this comparison, Śrīla Prabhupāda, or not?
Prabhupāda: Why you are going to fight with them?
Rūpānuga: No, no. We don't fight. We're just saying that they are using all the good arguments already, but they are making that one mistake.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Fundamental mistake, there. So if we bring up this, scientist are going to believe here, more likely to believe, because this is (indistinct) in the time range that they are talking about.
Prabhupāda: So long. As soon as there is five thousand years, they will (indistinct). The Christian theory used to say that the world is flat. So what is the value of their words? There is no value. You do not try to compromise with others.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, we are not compromising with anybody.
Prabhupāda: You present your own as it is Bhāgavatam, try to explain them to your best capacity scientifically. If you bring this, bring that... All of them are imperfect. So what is the use of wasting time with something which is imperfect?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We want to demonstrate that those points are imperfect.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We want to demonstrate, though, that those points are imperfect.
Prabhupāda: That you can do, but you must know they are all imperfect. Five thousand years! We can give history of millions and millions of years. And what was before five thousand years, there was no, nothing? What is their (indistinct), reply?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: What do they say, the Christians?
Sadāpūta: They don't say too much.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Want to make any more points along that line?
Rūpānuga: One thing is, just like here, Śrīla Prabhupāda, these are our Manus, the real situation, right? And their time scale begins back here, Cambrian Age. Back here in Vaivasvata Manu's age, according to Veda. So we were showing, we made the actual time scale, and showed how their time scale only went back one or two Manus. (aside) Is that right? How many Manus? Two.
Prabhupāda: What Manus? There is seventy-two into 432,000 years. So they are calculating five thousand years... What is this nonsense?
Rūpānuga: No, the Christians calculate, but the others, they go back more than that time. The scientists... These Christians are not accepted so much as.... They're not included in scientific knowledge; they are considered something else.
Prabhupāda: My point is that the Christian theory is also imperfect and the scientists also imperfect.
Rūpānuga: We can show both.
Prabhupāda: If you can show that, that is all right.
Rūpānuga: That is why we made this chart...
Prabhupāda: That is all right.
Rūpānuga: ...to show...
Prabhupāda: Show them imperfect. That will be... (break) Actually they're imperfect. Just like they say five thousand years, a ludicrous.