Desmond O'Grady: That which dies, rots and is forgotten.
Prabhupāda: That is some conception, mortality. Mortal? Mortality, it is not absolutism. So long you are mortal, you are not on the absolute platform, because you are actually immortal. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, na jāyate na mriyate va kadācin (BG 2.20). (aside:) Find out. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit.
Desmond O'Grady: But is there anything wrong with accepting the fact that you are mortal, you die, you rot and you become nothing?
Prabhupāda: No. That is the polluted conception. Actually you are immortal; you do not die. That is your position. (aside:) Read this verse.
- na jāyate mriyate va kadācin
- nāyaṁ bhūtvā bhavitā vā na bhūyaḥ
- ajo nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇo
- na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre
- (BG 2.20)
"For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain."
Prabhupāda: That is it. That is the position of the soul. So when there is mortality, that is not perfect stage. And when he attains the stage of again immortality... Because actually he is immortal.
Desmond O'Grady: Actuality is immortal.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Desmond O'Grady: Hmm, not bad. Because actuality has to do with effect.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The actuality is immortal. He never takes birth...
Desmond O'Grady: Never takes bath?
Desmond O'Grady: Oh, never takes birth, true. But immortality, I mean, actuality, of course, has to do with the actuality of the situation that we have right now, with you sitting there and we, as friends, sitting with you and engaging in the gentle art of conversation.
Prabhupāda: Actually... Just like you are sitting in a different dress; I am sitting in a different dress. So the dress does not affect our actuality. We are human being. Similarly, the conception of body—"I am Irishman," "I am Englishman," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian"—these are different dresses. So one has to become free from these designations.