Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: One may say that if there's no independence, then where is the question of initiative in the material world, taking initiative?
Prabhupāda: Initiative? What is that question? Initiative I understand, but do you think that by taking initiative of independence you become independent, like this? By dancing and fireworks, you become independent? This is initiative, dancing like dogs, (sings) "We are independent, we are independent." (laughter) Does it have any meaning? Dance like a dog, that's all.
Hari-śauri: It's a big show, that's all.
Yadubara: They will say that they can do so many things.
Prabhupāda: What they can do? They cannot do anything. At any moment you can be kicked out, "Get out."
Yadubara: But they have choice within māyā. Isn't that a fact?
Prabhupāda: Choice?
Yadubara: They have choice what to do in the material world, many different fields. They will say that they can do this or that.
Prabhupāda: Many fields, that is also conditioned. That is conditioned; that is not independence.
Hari-śauri: One has choice to become a dog or a cat or . . .
Prabhupāda: Everything is conditioned. Therefore it is called conditioned life. There is no question of independence. That is foolishness. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, that they are not independent—completely under the control of laws of material nature, and still they are thinking independent.
Rūpānuga: It is like a prisoner in the prison house thinking he has some freedom.
Prabhupāda: That freedom is daṇḍa jāne rājā yena nadīte cubāya. Drowning the man in the water and, "Now you have independence, so breathe." (laughter) So he breathes in, "Ah! Ah!" "All right, you are now a little relieved. All right, again. Again become drown." "Oh! Save me, save me, save me, save me." "All right," take out, "now breathe, independently." This is independence. Daṇḍa jāne rājā yena nadīte cubāya. The rascal does not know "I am breathing independent, but at any moment I can be drowned again." Very correct example, daṇḍa jāne rājā yena nadīte cubāya. No independence. Independence is only there when you fully surrender to Kṛṣṇa. You surrender your all independence to Kṛṣṇa, then there is. "Kṛṣṇa, I have foolishly acted as independent so many lives. Now I surrender all my independence at Your lotus feet. If You like, You can kill me, if You like, You can . . ." that is independence. Otherwise, there is no independence. All foolishness. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā (BG 3.27). By false egotism, he's thinking that "I am independent."
Rūpānuga: He's misusing.
Prabhupāda: Misusing the energy. Yesterday, some two and half million the government has spent, and we also, combined together, we have spent ten million by power, gas, going there and coming, so many cars. Another ten million. So all these twelve million, three . . . thirteen million dollars spent for nothing. Dancing like dogs, independence, māyā. (break) (out of car) Ask him this question.
Hari-śauri: Prabhupāda was saying in the car that yesterday the American people were declaring their independence. So he's asking what was the value to it.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: What is the value of it? They are enjoying their senses.
Prabhupāda: Now dog dancing. What is that song? Dog dancing? I sang that song?
Hari-śauri: Oh. (sings) "We are independent, we are independent."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: (laughs) That is the spirit of patriotism.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, you can say any name, any style or any trademark, but where is the independence? That is the question.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But Śrīla Prabhupāda blessed yesterday around the Capitol. There were so many people, and they seemed like they liked . . .
Prabhupāda: So many people, there are so many earthworms also. Ants also, gathered together. Does it mean they are independent? Hare Kṛṣṇa. You know the earthworms? They heap up earth and disappear. So you are . . . if you take it in that way, that big, big buildings, just like earthworms gathering up earth and then disappears. Actually that is the fact. Like the worms, we gather together and become a nation and apply all our energy, heaps of building, then finished. We go somewhere, you go somewhere. And who knows what he's going to be next life? Everything is going like that—family, community, national. Like the same earthworm, they gather so much huge ḍhipi . . . what is called ḍhipi in English?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Some sort of manure.
Prabhupāda: We are ḍhipi. We are ḍhipi. We ḍhipi. You have seen?
Devotee: Teepee?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, big heaps, mounds, hills?
Prabhupāda: Not hills. Anyway, small or big, they gather together and then goes away, finished by the laws of nature. Washington, he gave you independence, but where he is? What he is doing? Where is that person who gave you independence?
Vipina: Would you like to walk this way today, Prabhupāda?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is a basic difference between the earthworm and the man.
Prabhupāda: No difference. It is also living entity, you are also living entity.