Prabhupāda: ...our books.
Prof. Regamay: Yes. Yes, I have seen. I have read them, but the Bhagavad-gītā I have not yet received.
Prabhupāda: Not yet seen Bhagavad-gītā?
Guru-gaurāṅga: He has seen, but he will get today.
Prof. Regamay: And perhaps, some questions I could put to you?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prof. Regamay: But first I would like to express my thanks that you gave me this honor to receive me. So I have different questions because I'm in such a difficult situation that I have many Indian doctrines, and there was some difficulty because I know them only through the books, without (indistinct). And, for instance, one of the first questions I want to put: Viṣṇu Purāṇa, it's very similar and very coincidental to the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, Viṣṇu Purāṇa.
Prof. Regamay: Is that... Practically, can it be considered that it's the same kind of...
Prabhupāda: Yes, Viṣṇu Purāṇa is Vaiṣṇava literature. There are eighteen Purāṇas. Out of eighteen, six are sāttvika, and six are rājasika, and six are tāmasika. The sāttvika Purāṇas, they are Vaiṣṇava literature. Viṣṇu Purāṇa, Brahmāṇḍa Purāṇa, Bhāgavata Purāṇa, Padma Purāṇa.
Prof. Regamay: The same... Because I understood through... It is that the problem, that Kṛṣṇa is the original person of divine, but in, by Rāmānuja or Viṣṇu Purāṇa it reverse Viṣṇu is the highest.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is Viṣṇu.
Prof. Regamay: And Kṛṣṇa is the avatāra of Viṣṇu.
Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa is avatārī. You have read Bhagavad-gītā?
Prof. Regamay: Yes, of course.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ. Find out this verse.
- ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo
- mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate
- iti matvā bhajante māṁ
- budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ
- (BG 10.8)
So sarvasya. There are originally three deities: Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara. So Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: I am the origin of all the deities." Read it.
Guru-gaurāṅga:
- ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo
- mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate
- iti matvā bhajante māṁ
- budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ
- (BG 10.8)
"I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who know this perfectly engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts."
Prof. Regamay: Yes, I know what it is in the Bhagavad-gītā but, for instance, in the words of Rāmānuja, it is not Kṛṣṇa, but it is Viṣṇu which is the highest form. So this one question, what I had to put that... And also... May I sit down on...? I would be much more...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Give him another pad.
Prof. Regamay: Among the avatāras which are described in the second and third book of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, there are two questions I have to put. There is Kṛṣṇa Himself, who appears as His own avatāra, and the Kṛṣṇa, the yādava Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, when He appears within this material world... That is also in the Bhāgavatam, that He appears as Viṣṇu incarnation. But actually, Kṛṣṇa is the... In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated, yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ, viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā-viśeṣaḥ (Bs. 5.48). You understand?
Prof. Regamay: Yes, I understand.
Prabhupāda: Viṣṇur mahān, Mahā-Viṣṇu, yasya iha kalā-viśeṣo govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. So the Mahā-Viṣṇu, the origin of the material creation... There is Mahā-Viṣṇu in the Causal Ocean. From Him the Garbhodakaśāyī-Viṣṇu enters into each and every universe. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ (Bs. 5.48). So jagad-aṇḍa-nātha is Brahmā. So he is produced on the Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. And this Garbhodakaśāyī-Viṣṇu is expansion of Mahā-Viṣṇu. And Mahā-Viṣṇu is kalā viśeṣaḥ, partial expansion of Kṛṣṇa. Yasya hi, yasya hi. What is that? You have Brahma-saṁhitā?
Devotee: You have a copy downstairs.
Yogeśvara: Yasya prabhā prabhavataḥ (Bs. 5.40).
Prabhupāda: No, that is another. Yasya niśvasita-kālam avalambya. Mahā-Viṣṇu is breathing. So taking advantage of that breathing, innumerable universes are generating. And each universe, there is a superintending deity who is called Brahmā. Yasya hi niśvasita-kālam. Kālam atha avalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ. Many hundreds and millions of Brahmās there are. They live, only taking advantage of the breathing period of Mahā-Viṣṇu. (break) Mahā-Viṣṇu is sub-plenary portion. First Kṛṣṇa, then Balarāma, then Saṅkarṣaṇa, Pradyumna, Aniruddha, Vāsudeva. Vāsudeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa. Then, from Saṅkarṣaṇa, Nārāyaṇa. Then, from Nārāyaṇa, again catur-vyūha, second Saṅkarṣaṇa, Vāsudeva, Aniruddha. And from the second Saṅkarṣaṇa is Mahā-Viṣṇu. And from Mahā-Viṣṇu, Kāraṇodakaśāyī-Viṣṇu. And from Kāraṇodakaśāyī-Viṣṇu, Kṣīrodakaśāyī-Viṣṇu. The Kṣīrodakaśāyī-Viṣṇu is in each universe. He is the Supersoul. And when any incarnation comes within this world, He comes through Kṣīrodakaśāyī-Viṣṇu. In that way, Kṛṣṇa comes through Kṣīrodakaśāyī-Viṣṇu. But this Kṣīrodakaśāyī-Viṣṇu is the expansion of the expansion of Kṛṣṇa.
Prof. Regamay: Yes, I see, but...
Prabhupāda: It is like that.
Prof. Regamay: Yādava Kṛṣṇa spoke with Arjuna...
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Prof. Regamay: It was the personal God Himself or it was an incarnation, this Kṛṣṇa which is in Bhagavad-gītā?
Prabhupāda: Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam (Bs. 5.33). Kṛṣṇa is one. Advaitam acyutam. Infallible. Anādi, He has no cause. Ananta-rūpam. Ananta-rūpam. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣam (Bs. 5.33). He is the origin. Advaitam-acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca (Bs. 5.33). Still, He's just a fresh young boy. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. So Govinda is the ādi-puruṣam. Aham ādir hi devānām. Find out this verse, aham ādir hi devānām. Rāmānujācārya has also admitted Kṛṣṇa the Supreme. Śaṅkarācārya has admitted in his notes on Bhagavad-gītā, sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇaḥ. What is that?
Nitāi:
- na me viduḥ sura-gaṇāḥ
- prabhavaṁ na maharṣayaḥ
- aham ādir hi devānāṁ
- maharṣīṇāṁ ca sarvaśaḥ
- (Bg 10.2)
"Neither the hosts of demigods nor the great sages know My origin for in every respect I am the source of the demigods and the sages."
Prof. Regamay: Yes. Thank you.