Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? What is that ingredient or what is that thing which causes faith to develop in one? From someone becoming...
Prabhupāda: Purity. Purity. The more you become pure, the faith is firm.
Nārāyaṇa: So faith comes from previous pious activities?
Prabhupāda: No, may not be previous activity. You believe the authority, spiritual master.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That comes from purity, faith.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: As purity develops, one becomes more faithful.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That purity is said, ādau śraddhā: "Beginning is faith." Now tato sādhu-saṅgaḥ: "You mix with faithful men." Then it will develop. Otherwise, if you take simply initiation and then sleep, then faith will be lost. That is happening. Therefore it is said, adau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅgaḥ. You accept faith, maybe blindly. Now you make further progress by mixing with advanced devotees. Then it will remain fixed. Otherwise you will loss.
Bahulāśva: Faith is fixed by knowledge?
Prabhupāda: No, faith may be blind, but it increases. If you stick to faith and follow the principles, then it will increase. Svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. Just like... Yasya deve parā bhaktiḥ yathā deve tathā gurau. So if you have got faith in spiritual master then you will advance. If you have no faith, then it will be lost.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And unless one is pure, he will not have faith.
Prabhupāda: No.
Paramahaṁsa: Isn't it is also like a child?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Everyone is child. So the father says, "Do this. That's all." Like "Write 'A.' " He does not know what is A. But the father says, "You write like this." That will increase his education.
Paramahaṁsa: But doesn't it come first because of trust?
Prabhupāda: Yes, trust. Without trust, without faith, you cannot advance even an inch. So therefore it is required.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. Prabhupāda, what are the symptoms of purity?
Prabhupāda: Just like I do not know where this pathway goes. But you show me, "This way." So without faith, how can I go? If I have no faith, then I cannot move even an inch. I believe, "Yes, he is all right. Let me go." This is faith. I do not know whether it is going, which way it is going. So without faith, you cannot move an inch. So faith must be there, either it is true or blind.
Yadubara: So everyone has faith.
Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone has. Therefore the direction should be taken from the perfect, and with faith you will make progress.
Nārāyaṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, but Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that wherever one puts their faith, He gives them the steadiness to worship in that way. So how come so many people, they put their faith in all these false gurus or people that impose themself as ones who are in knowledge and then they become fooled? Is this previous activities? Sinful activities?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Jayādvaita: You explained that in your lecture yesterday, that Kṛṣṇa is in the heart and He is giving direction to remember or to forget, that sometimes He is directing to remember Him, sometimes to forget Him.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because if you have no faith, then Kṛṣṇa will not give you instruction. When he is faithless, he will not make progress. Stops.
Nārāyaṇa: But people are putting their faith in so many different places.
Prabhupāda: "So many" means he has no faith in anything.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: As soon as you say, "so many," that means he has no faith. He is faithless.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda? If you say that purity is required for faith to develop, what are the symptoms by which one can be said to be pure?
Prabhupāda: That is... Just like "Don't do this. Don't do this. Don't do this." So if you have faith, you will not do it. But because you have no faith, you will do it, and therefore you will go to ruin.
Yadubara: The karmīs have faith that the sun will come up every day.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yadubara: So that is actually faith in the workings of the Supreme, Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: What is your idea? I do not follow. Everyone knows the sun will appear, faithless or faith.
Yadubara: Is that faith?
Prabhupāda: Not faith. It is fact. He is seeing every day.
Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the scientists will argue...
Prabhupāda: That is faith—means on knowledge. So faith with knowledge is very good. But beginning must be faith, with knowledge or without knowledge.
Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the scientists will argue that Kṛṣṇa consciousness won't be scientifically accepted if it's just based on...
Prabhupāda: The scientists, how they can argue like that? Therefore they are rascals. First of all they explain something theoretically: "Hydrogen, oxygen-mix together it becomes water." It is faith. Then it is practically shown in the laboratory. So faith is the beginning. Theoretical knowledge means faith. Then experiment.
Baradrāj: The Vedic knowledge is also that way, very scientific.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bahulāśva: So first we hear from the guru that Kṛṣṇa is God, and we have faith in that, we chant, and then we come to know.
Prabhupāda: As you become purified, then your faith becomes fixed up with knowledge. Therefore that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam: (BG 7.28) "One who has finished his sinful life, he can become a devotee." Otherwise one cannot. First of all, beginning in faith. Then, by following the process, he becomes completely sinless. Then he, full knowledge. And so long he will be sinful, the things will be not properly manifested. Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam.
Baradrāj: So knowledge is not necessary for faith but faith is necessary for knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore devotee, without any knowledge he becomes devotee. That faith, only faith. The devotee advances. Jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukī. Later on, they become automatically full of knowledge because they have strong faith. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Teṣām evānukampārtham aham ajñāna-jaṁ tamaḥ nāśayāmy: (BG 10.11) "Because he is faithful, therefore I help him how to get knowledge." Again you come to that. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). Everything is there.
Jayādvaita: Your lecture yesterday was so nice, Śrīla Prabhupāda, everything, so many ideas from Bhagavad-gītā, all explained and put together so nicely.
Paramahaṁsa: Blind faith is the belief that little...
Prabhupāda: Blind faith, without... That I have already explained. Immediately, why do you forget? He shows me, "Prabhupāda, come this way." So I have no faith. Why shall I go? Then I have stop here, finished, movement finished. So you have to keep faith blindly. And if the man who is giving direction, he is perfect, then your faith will make you advanced. But if you go to a rascal cheater and if you have faith, blind faith, then you are lost.
Paramahaṁsa: Just like that little rock that I saw, that it's from the moon. Now that is blind faith.
Prabhupāda: Yes, blind faith.
Paramahaṁsa: In the wrong thing.
Bahulāśva: Socrates also, he was discussing epistemology, and he said that faith or belief is as good as knowledge for all practical purposes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The same thing: the child has no knowledge, but he has faith in his parents, and he believes what his parents says. Then he is making progress.
Bahulāśva: This way.
Prabhupāda: I have faith in you. (break) Now, I give sometimes this example. Just like you go to a barber shop, and you put your neck like this, and he is with the razor. So unless you have faith, "No, he is good man. He will not cut my throat," how can you do so? So faith is the beginning. If you have no... If you say, "No, I have no faith in you," then you cannot be cleansed.
Baradrāj: That example became very clear when we went to India. (Prabhupāda & devotees laugh) Because the barbers are so, they look like they could cut your throat.
Bahulāśva: You have to have a lot of faith.
Prabhupāda: He can do that, but you must have faith. Otherwise no shaving. So many... Suppose you are going to some unknown place. Now we are purchasing, paying two thousand dollars, ticket. But where is the guarantee that you will go there? You are paying first money, but there is no guarantee that you will go there. Then how do you get the ticket? How do you get on the plane unless, without faith? So faith, without faith you cannot move an inch. It must be there. (break) ...believe, "No, no, this ticket is issued by the Pan American. They are good company, and so many people are going. So I will go also." That's all. So faith. You never went there, neither you know whether it will be possible to go there. But still, you have to do. That is faith. (break)
Baradrāj: The airplane may crash.
Prabhupāda: Yes, there are so many things. There is no guarantee that you will reach there. But still you have to purchase ticket. You have to get on the plane. That is faith.
Sudāmā: And all the passengers have to have faith in the captain of the plane.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, the faith must be there. Without faith, you cannot go.
Paramahaṁsa: So actually that's what scientific knowledge, at least the atheistic science, is based upon, that on one hand the theists believe in faith, that there is a Supreme. But the atheist believes that "Undoubtedly there cannot be because we have not seen one."
Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. The same example can be applied, that you have not gone there. How can I pay you? First of all let me go there. Then I shall pay," he may say. But he will, "Get out. First of all pay. Then you come on." (laughter) That's it.