Prabhupāda: So we can discuss some of the problems, about the problems. Discuss what are the problems.
Bhagavān: Now? We shall discuss now?
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are going to solve all problems. Let us have some preliminary discussion, how we are going to solve.
Bhagavān: The biggest problem now is that they have built up a type of society in which their needs are all coming from petrol energy. To produce what they need today is all coming from this petrol energy...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Bhagavān: ...which they are importing basically from the Saudi Arabian countries.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhagavān: Now, recently, in the last war in the Middle East, Saudi Arabians raised the price of the oil over double now, I think, as a pressure to the western countries to do things in their favor. Now they realized that the market for oil is in such great demand that they don't have to lower the price after the war, but they are going to keep the price. And actually the price is still increasing. So this is causing inflation.
Prabhupāda: So this problem will be solved as soon as we are localized. Petrol is required for transport, but if you are localized, there is no question of transport. You don't require petrol. Suppose in New Vrindaban, we stay, we don't go anywhere. Then where is the need of petrol?
Bhagavān: Petrol they also use for heating. And electricity.
Prabhupāda: No, heating. Heating we can do by wood. By nature.
Dhanañjaya: I remember, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were saying that all we require is some oxen, and the oxen can carry.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The oxen will solve the problem of transport. That bullock cart. Just like Kṛṣṇa, when He was transferred from Gokula to Nandagrāma, so they took all the bullock carts, and within a few hours they transported them, the whole thing, their luggage, family member, everything.
Bhagavān: How far can a bullock cart travel in one day?
Prabhupāda: At least ten miles, very easily, very easily. And maximum he can travel fifteen miles, twenty miles. But when we are localized, we don't require to go beyond ten miles, five miles. Because we have created a rubbish civilization, therefore one is required to go fifty miles for earning bread, hundred miles, hanging.
Dhanañjaya: Like in Los Angeles.
Prabhupāda: Why Los Angeles? Everywhere. In New York they are coming from hundred miles. From the other side of the island. First ferry steamer, then bus, then so on, so on. Three hours, four hours, they spend for transport.
Satsvarūpa: Is this an ideal solution or a practical one?
Prabhupāda: This is practical.
Satsvarūpa: Because sometimes we say that actually we cannot change the course of the...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Our society will be ideal by practical application.
Satsvarūpa: If we stopped all the transportation industry, there would be huge unemployment. It would be a great...
Prabhupāda: No, no, we are not going to stop employment. We live like this. You see. If you like, you live like us.
Bhagavān: Example.
Prabhupāda: Example.
Satsvarūpa: Not that we dictate to the... Not that we are going to force everyone.
Prabhupāda: No, we are not going to force anyone. "Our mode of living is like this. If you like you can adopt." Just like we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So we are not forcing anyone that "You also, you must chant." No. We live like this.
Dhanañjaya: So in fact, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we should start using bullock carts.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, first of all you start the community project, as we have already started in New Vrindaban. Make this perfect.
Devotee: There was a big meeting of scientists in Stockholm, Sweden, and they talked that if humanity don't begin to live in a localized way like you say, in fifty years will be no more source of production.
Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. We can produce from anywhere, foodstuff.
Bhagavān: What about the question of using petrol for heat? Another import, there is three uses of petrol, or four. One is the transportation, one is heat, another is electricity, and a fourth is they use it to manufacture so many products. So what if someone asks...
Prabhupāda: No, you go on products, with your product. You have created problem, you go on with your problem. But we live like this. If you like, you can adopt.