Prabhupāda: Well, the hippies, they are nonsense. What is the value of their anything? They have no value. They are crazy, mad fellows. That's all. There is no philosophy, nothing of the sort.
Śyāmasundara: He calls... What you said is that māyā is the urge within nature to desire the next step of evolution.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: He wants this, he wants that. Is that right?
Prabhupāda: Next step... No. Up to human form of life, by nature one is making progress automatically. One after this, one after this. That evolution. Jalajā nava... Just like from aquatics, you become trees, plants. (aside:) Telephone. Telephone. Somebody go. From trees, you become insect. From insect, you become birds or reptiles. From birds, you become beast. From beast, you become a human being. This is going on by nature's way. Just like a goat. A goat has to live in this body for certain years. Then he becomes something, other animal, and he has to live in that body for some years. Then he becomes another body. This is change . In this way he comes to the human form of life when his consciousness is developed. Now, when... Amongst the human form of life, there are many species of human form of life. So when one comes to..., I may say, in India, when he's born in India, that is the highest perfectional point because there is Vedic knowledge. So he can take advantage of the Vedic knowledge. And by taking advantage of Vedic knowledge, he understands that "I am part and parcel of God. Therefore my real business is to go back to God. Why I am suffering in this material world?" That is perfectional stage.
Śyāmasundara: But the urge to improve oneself, to attain the next stage...
Prabhupāda: This is the urge for improvement. Kṛṣṇa says, God says, that "All living entities are My part and parcels." This instruction can be accepted only by human beings, not the cats and dogs. Although He claims that "Every living entity is My part and parcel," the cats and dogs, they have no capacity to understand these, I mean to say, utterances of the Personality of Godhead. Even he has got an ear. You are hearing, a dog may hear. But you can capture; the dog cannot capture. Due to his lower grade of body, he cannot. So in this higher grade of body, the Vedic instructions are there. Now you can make your choice. Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). As Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna that "Whatever you like you can do." So now it depends upon you. If you don't accept the real progressive life, understand Kṛṣṇa and surrender unto Him, then you will go back.
Śyāmasundara: Is it not that because our real nature is perfect that we're always striving to become perfect again? Striving to reach that point again?
Prabhupāda: Yes, your nature is perfect. Perfect means you have got independence also. So you can perfectly misuse also, independence. That is perfect.
Śyāmasundara: But there is always that urge, even among the lower animals, to improve themselves, be promoted.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is being done by nature. That is evolution. Darwin has taken this idea from the Vedas, but he has no soul idea.
Śyāmasundara: But he mentions the point, what is that urge? Why do I want to improve? What is that urge that makes me want to...
Prabhupāda: It is not his urge. Nature is giving him the impetus. Just like when you are young, there is no sex urge. When you are a small boy, there is no sex urge, but as soon as you come to a certain stage, say, sixteen years, you immediately... The sex urge is there within you, but it was not developed in your childhood. But as soon as you go, come to the youth-hood, there is. Similarly, the perfection of consciousness is there, but unless you come to the stage of human being, that is not developed.