Dr. Patel: If a man has seen a place, that man will show you that place. That is how it is.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man (3): But to reach that place there are several ways.
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is said, tattva-darśinaḥ. You have to approach a person who has seen the truth. You don't manufacture your own truth. That will be misleading. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). This is Vedic instruction. In order to understand scientifically, you must approach a guru.
Indian man (3): And with a clean slate.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Indian man (3): With a clean slate of his mind.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyam (MU 1.2.12).
Dr. Patel: It is complete spirit of submission.
Prabhupāda: Submission. Because . . .
Dr. Patel: And inquiry also.
Prabhupāda: . . . I am a fool. If I go with a challenging spirit, what is the meaning of my challenging? I am a fool.
Dr. Patel: That is how we people are educated
Prabhupāda: Yes. But the Westerners are not that. (break) . . . different thing. They never say anything against me. Whatever I say, they accept. We have got so many Western men.
Dr. Patel: This education has created this, this sort of morose . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: . . . in the educational system . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man (3): Inquiring is not bad. Inquiring of anything is . . .
Prabhupāda: No, inquiring submissively. Not that challenging. If one challenges to inquire, he'll never be benefited.
Dr. Patel: That is how . . . even the Einstein inquired himself so unchallengingly. That man was such a big mathematical genius . . . (break)
Prabhupāda: Knowledge cannot be acquired by challenge. Knowledge is acquired by submission. That is the process.
Dr. Patel: But I don't think I am challenging you.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Why you are taking?
Dr. Patel: I am fixing the aruṇi with another aruṇi. So you tell these boys I'm not challenging you.
Prabhupāda: No, no. I am talking of the process, not of you personally. Yes.
Dr. Patel: Otherwise these people will go away with an idea that I am here to challenge you and your authority.
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Indian man (3): Nobody can challenge anybody. A Vaiṣṇava . . . (break)
Prabhupāda: . . . thing is to be done submissively, praṇipātena. Two things. Inquiry must be guided by two things: submission and sevā.
Dr. Patel: First, according to Bhagavad-gītā, most important is śraddhā . . . (break)
Prabhupāda: . . . jñānam. So that is the beginning. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ. Atha bhajana-kriyā. These are the step by step. Atha anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭhā rucis tataḥ athāsaktis tato bhāvas sādhakānām ayaṁ premṇaḥ prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ (CC Madhya 23.14-15). These are the krama, krama panthā. Everything is there in our Vedic literature. One has to study cool-headed, and he'll get the things. (break) . . . movement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness or spiritual consciousness is based on śraddhā. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. If one actually has śraddhā, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa says like this, then I'll accept Kṛṣṇa," that is śraddhā. "Kṛṣṇa says . . . oh, Kṛṣṇa says like this. Why shall I surrender to Him?" that is not śraddhā. Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. If one accepts this principle, then there is śraddhā. That is explained by Caitanya-caritāmṛta-kar:
- śraddhā-śabde—viśvāsa kahe sudṛḍha niścaya
- kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya
- (CC Madhya 22.62)
This is śraddhā. Śraddhā-śabde viśvāsa. Firm faith. "Yes, Kṛṣṇa has said that mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. I will accept it. I will accept it. Even I do not understand, I will accept it." That is called viśvāsa sudṛḍha niścaya. And faith means kṛṣṇe bhakti: "If I surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then my all perfection is there." This is called śraddhā.