Hanumān: In your books you say that the world is like a dream.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is dream.
Hanumān: How is it a dream?
Prabhupāda: Dream, just like last night you had some dream.
Hanumān: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Well, it has no value. It is gone. And again, this night, when you'll sleep, you'll forget all these things. You'll dream. You don't remember during night, when you are dreaming, that "I have got my house, I have got my wife I have..." You all forget. So it is dream.
Hanumān: It is true or is not true?
Prabhupāda: No, no. Where is true? You forget at night. Do you remember when you sleep that you have got your wife and you are sleeping on bed? You have gone some three thousand miles away and seeing something else. Do you remember that you have got a place to reside?
Hanumān: No.
Prabhupāda: So this is dream at night. And night dream, what you saw at night, that is now dream. So both of them dream. You are simply visitor. That's all. You are seeing this dream and that dream. You are, you are fact, but what you are seeing, that is dream.
Hanumān: But I have the impression that "This is true, and my dream is not true." What is the dif...?
Prabhupāda: No, no. Everything is untrue. How it is true? If it is true, why you forget at night? Why you forget? If it is true. Do you remember at night?
Hanumān: No, I don't remember.
Prabhupāda: Then? How it is true? As you don't remember the dreams which you saw last night..., That, therefore we say "dream." Similarly this thing, because you forget at night, this is also dream.
Hanumān: But I have...
Prabhupāda: This is day-dream, that is night-dream. That's all.
Bahulāśva: Jaya. Day-dream and night-dream. And the night-dream, then you perceive that as being real.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Bahulāśva: When you dream at night, then you think that is real.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real. You cry... It is dream, but you are crying, "There is tiger, tiger, tiger!" Where is tiger? But you are seeing it is fact, tiger. "I am being killed by a tiger." But where is tiger. (break) ...in dream you are embracing some beautiful girl. Where is that beautiful girl? But actually this is happening.
Hanumān: Is it happening?
Prabhupāda: It is happening because there is discharge of semina, night pollution. But where is that girl? Is it not dream? So similarly this is also dream. You are having the effect of truthfulness, but it is a dream. Māyā... Therefore it is called māyā-sukhāya. The same thing, that at night you are dreaming you are embracing nice beautiful girl, as there is no such thing, similarly, in the daytime also, whatever advancement you are making, this is also like that. Māyā-sukhāya. We are happy, we are dreaming, "This process will make me happy. This process will make me happy." But the whole process is dream only. You are taking this day-dream as reality because the duration is long. At night, when you dream, the duration is for half an hour. And this is for twelve hours, or more than that. That is the difference. It is a twelve hours' dream, and that is half an hour dream. But actually, both of them are dream. And because it is twelve hours' dream, you are taking it as, accepting it as real. That is called illusion.
Bahulāśva: Illusion.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are making distinction between animal and ourself, but we're forgetting, we are forgetting, the animal also will die and I will also die. So where is my advancement? Will you remain? You'll also die. So where is your advancement upon animals? That is stated in śāstra: āhāra-nidra-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca samānam etat paśubhir narāṇām. Business—eating, sleeping, sex-life and defending—this is also animal's business. And you are also doing the same. How you are distinct from animal? You'll die. The animal will die. But if you say, "I'll die after one hundred years, and this ant will die after one hour," that does not mean that you are in reality. It is a question of time. Just like this huge universe. It will be all be destroyed. As your body will be destroyed, this will be destroyed, annihilation, dissolution. Nature's way, everything will be dissolved. So therefore it is dream. It is a long duration dream. That's all. Nothing else. But the advantage is that even in this dream you can realize the reality, God. That is the... So if you don't take advantage of this dream, then you are missing.
Hanumān: So I am half asleep.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the... Therefore Vedas says, uttiṣṭhata. "Get up, get up, get up!" Jāgṛta. "Become awakened." Prāpya varaṁ nibodhata. "Now you have got the opportunity. Utilize it." This is Vedic injunction. Uttiṣṭhata jāgṛta prāpya varaṁ nibodhata. This is Vedic in... Tamasi mā jyotir gama. These are Vedic injunctions. So we are preaching the same thing, that "Reality is here, Kṛṣṇa. Don't remain in this darkness. Come to this consciousness." That is our preaching. Tamasi mā jyotir gama. (break) ...experienced the sunshine, bright day, and this gloomy day. So when you are in darkness, we must have to admit, "There is light." Because darkness means absence of light. So as we are in the darkness of this material existence, there must be something life of light. That is spiritual world. That is reality. (break) ...ahaṁ brahmāsmi. "Oh, I don't belong to this darkness, darkness atmosphere. I belong to the light atmosphere." That is self-realization. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi.
- brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
- na śocati na kāṅkṣati
- samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
- mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
- (BG 18.54)
This is brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) stage. Just like this is a cakra. I am walking on this wheel. But I am thinking I am advancing. What is this advancement? It is already there. Just like they are advancing in science and they must remain here. They are trying for so many years to go to the Moon planet, and no result. (laughs) The same, same thing. "Now we are going to the moon planet." But coming again. That's all. So saṁsāra-cakra. Just like the dog. Dog is sometimes barking: "Gata-gata-gata-gata!" The master says, "Come on." Immediately come. He thinks that "I have got freedom. Let me jump over." You see. So we are thinking like that. We are under the māyā's clutches. "Come on, come on here." Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). He's under the reins of prakṛti. He cannot go anywhere. (pause) (break)
Hanumān: ...simultaneously in the dream and not in the dream. So when...
Prabhupāda: That is reality, when you are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is reality.
Hanumān: But I also see all this.
Prabhupāda: Eh? That is another thing. On the path of reality, you come.
Hanumān: On the path?
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a process. When the process is complete, then you'll come to the reality. But that is the process. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). We cannot distinguish now reality and non-reality because the heart is unclean. So we have to cleanse, and then we come to the reality.