Guest (1): I would like to ask you a question. Once Leibnitz, who is one of the fathers of the Western tradition, formulated the question which was the beginning of metaphysics in a way, Western metaphysics. The question is "Why there is anything?" What is your stand about this classic point?
Prabhupāda: Why?
Guest (1): Why there is anything?
Hṛdayānanda: Why anything exists? What is the reason for the existence of...?
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) "Why anything exists?" (laughter) What do you mean by anything?
Guest (1): Well, that's precisely the point. What is the purpose? What is the sense, if there is any, or does the very question make sense?
Prabhupāda: No, no, unless understand what is that "anything..." First of all, you have to understand what is that "anything." Anything... Just like this book, this table, this bell, the electric they are so many things. So you can take any one of them; that is anything. What is your idea of anything?
Guest (1): Oh, reality. Material, external, reality to our ego, our internal reality as well.
Prabhupāda: Internal reality and external reality?
Guest (1): Both. For me, the word "anything" covers both.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that also we understand, "anything." There are so many varieties of things, and you can take any one of them. That is "anything." But your question should be, "Wherefrom these things coming?" That should be the proper question.
Professor: What is the reason of this (indistinct) "anything"?
Prabhupāda: Yes. There are so many things, and you can take any one of them. That is "anything." But the real question should be "Wherefrom all these things are coming?" That is real question, "What is the origin of all these things?"
Guest (1): Well, origin, that is more on the theoretical side. It's a question, "Why?" But I am, rather, after the purpose.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a nice question. But there is the real source of everything. That is the Vedānta-sūtra... Perhaps you have read. Vedānta-sūtra, first question is: "Wherefrom all these things come?" So the answer is that janmādy asya yataḥ: (SB 1.1.1) "Brahmān. The original thing is Brahmān, or the Absolute Truth, and from Him, everything is emanating." Just like physical... The sun is there, and whole material world is product of the sunshine. What your physical science says? Eh? Eh? Do they not say? It is a fact that sunshine... Due to the sunshine all these material things are there.
Guest (1): Well, it's more involved than just saying that. Sun is just a big complex of hydrogen and helium, a big pile of rubbish really, but it develops this marvelous reactions which causes it to work as a big nuclear reactor, an entirely different story, what the vision of science, of the present science, about the meaning of celestial bodies and the meaning of, in particular, of sun and moon and so on. We are extremely realistic about this world. We can't see, assuming all the glory of that what happens on the earth due to the existence of those bodies, we do not try to look inside of the structure of these things, as something meant for us. Just universe as it is... And this question, like Nietzchean question which I am repeating—that's not my point—this big question is... Western philosophy presently does not answer, does not ask this question. I think that this scientist who did ask it had quite a point. This question expresses the quest of the human race for some meaning for some sense, for some sense. That's what religion is now offering us, or philosophy, or... Rarely, directly, we hear the direct answer to that.
Prabhupāda: What is your direct answer?
Guest (1): Oh, I don't have any. If I would have, I wouldn't ask you.
Prabhupāda: That means your knowledge is insufficient.
Guest (1): Precisely. Precisely. That is the beginning of...
Prabhupāda: Therefore, if you have no answer. That's all right. That "We don't know" means our knowledge is insufficient. But knowledge means must be progressive. We should not remain in insufficient knowledge. We must make further progress to get sufficient knowledge. Inquiry.
Guest (1): But you referred to some other, more direct ways of acquiring knowledge than just the standard...
Prabhupāda: No, because we have got insufficient knowledge, we cannot approach directly. It is not possible. We have to take knowledge—who has got sufficient knowledge, from him. Because you have got insufficient knowledge, so you cannot make progress. Just like beyond this wall, you cannot say what is there. That is insufficient knowledge. But that does not mean there is nothing. Because you cannot say what is beyond this wall, that does not mean that there is nothing beyond this wall. Your knowledge is insufficient. Is it not?
Professor: But this was more or less my question...
Prabhupāda: Just try to hear. Then...
Professor: If Indian philosophy...
Prabhupāda: No, no, it is no Indian or American. It is the philosophy. It is philosophy. The philosophy is not Indian or American. Truth is truth, not Indian truth or American truth. That is not truth. That is relative truth. The Absolute Truth is absolute. That is neither Indian nor American nor...
Guest (1): But in what sense you use the concept "truth" here? Is it in the ontological sense, or is it in somehow in a more pragmatical human sense, refers to human beings or...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is pragmatic, that you cannot see beyond this wall. That is your insufficient knowledge or your senses are insufficient. You cannot go beyond this wall. But that does not mean there is nothing beyond this wall. So if you want to know what is beyond this wall, you have to know from a person who knows it. Yes. Because you cannot see, you cannot know, that is not the end. There must be something.
Guest (1): What?
Prabhupāda: Eh? It is actual fact. That is pragmatic. It is actual fact. There is... So many things there are, but you do not know because your senses are imperfect. Your eyes are imperfect, your touch, imperfect, the gathering senses... The senses which gathers knowledge... Just like eyes... We can see and gather knowledge. We can hear; we gather knowledge. We can taste; we gather knowledge. So, because your senses are imperfect, therefore your knowledge gathered, that is imperfect.
Professor: But in the case of a mystical man that has been able to see...
Prabhupāda: There is no question of mystic. First of all we have to admit that on account of our senses being imperfect, whatever knowledge we gather, that is imperfect. That is imperfect. Therefore, if you want to possess real knowledge you have to approach somebody who is perfect. You cannot... Huh?
Guest (1): How can we know that somebody is perfect?
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. But first of all, the basic principle is we have to understand that our senses are imperfect, and whatever knowledge we gather by these imperfect senses, they are imperfect. So if we want perfect knowledge, then we have to approach somebody whose senses are perfect, whose knowledge is perfect. That is the principle. That is the Vedic principle. Therefore the Vedic principle says, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). You know Sanskrit, yes. "In order to know that perfect knowledge, one should approach guru." So who is guru? Then the next question will be... Your question is that, "How I can?"
Guest (1): How can I know that...?
Prabhupāda: That I am coming. That I am coming. Guru... That is next line. It is said, śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. Guru means who has properly heard the Vedas, śruti. Śrotriyam. And as a result of his hearing he is firmly convinced in the existence of the Absolute Truth, God.
Professor: Well, this is... We've only come to one of the mentioned(?) theories of knowledge, I think, śabda.
Prabhupāda: Sata? Śabda, yes, śabda-brahman. Yes.
Professor: Then if you are able to communicate to heart with knowledge through śabda, no?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Śabda-brahman. Just like many thousands of miles away we are getting some radio message and we learn that "Something is happening there. Something is there." Therefore śabda. This is... Śabda means sound, sound, sound vibration. So that is the real source of knowledge. That is the real source of... Śabda-brahman.
Professor: One of the sources of knowledge or the only one?
Prabhupāda: No, that is the only one. There are others; they are subordinate. But the śabda, knowledge received, śabda, through śabda, śabda-brahman, that is perfect knowledge. Just like the same example: beyond this wall I cannot see, but if somebody there says, "This is the position here"—the sound comes—that is perfect. You cannot see what is going on, but if somebody says, sends radio message or any message, sound, then you know. Therefore śabda-pramāṇa, śabda, knowledge received through śabda, that is perfect knowledge.
Professor: That means through śabda, and through other means you can have a direct intuition but you can't intact... Direct intuition of things.
Prabhupāda: Intuition is different. Direct perception. Śabda, you can (have) direct perception. It is not intuition. It is perception. Therefore the word is used, śrotriyam brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). So our process is to receive knowledge through śabda-brahman, Vedic. Just like eko nārāyaṇa asit. Eko nārāyaṇa asit: "Before creation there was only Nārāyaṇa." Na brahmā na īśaḥ: "There was no Brahmā; there was no Śiva." So this is śabda-pramāṇa, śabda-pramāṇa, that "In the beginning there was God, nothing else." So in this way our Vedic principle is: when your knowledge is corroborated by the Vedic version then it is perfect.
Professor: But according to Śaṅkara it is not only way that you can approach truth. You can also approach through deduction.
Prabhupāda: There are many ways. Just like hypothesis. Hypothesis. Yes. History, history. Hypothesis, history. Then direct perception. There are many. But of all these, śabda-pramāṇa is taken as best. Śabda-pramāṇa, evidence through the sound. That is the best.