So Kṛṣṇa says that how you are thinking of the material. Material scientists, they are studying earth. What is called? Soil expert, they are studying soil: "Where is mine? Where is gold? Where is coal? Where is this, that?" So many thing, they are studying. But they do not know wherefrom these things came. Here is... Kṛṣṇa explains that bhinnā me prakṛti: "This is My energy, My energy." How these different chemicals and earthly matters became manifested, everyone is inquisitive, any thoughtful man. Here is the answer. Here is the answer, that
- bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ
- khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca
- ahaṅkāra itīyaṁ me
- bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā
- (BG 7.4)
Bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā. Just like I am speaking, it is being recorded, recorded. But in my absence, if the record is played, it will exactly vibrate the same sound. So that is my energy or anyone's energy, but bhinnā, separated from me. You have to understand like that. So everything is energy of God, Kṛṣṇa, but this material world means we are missing Kṛṣṇa. Wherefrom this energy has come? That point we are missing. Bhinnā. One who knows... Just like the same example. In the record the play is going on, but one who does not know who has recorded this speech, he cannot find out. But one who knows voice, he can understand, "It is coming from Prabhupāda, or the Swamiji." Similarly, the energy is there, but because we have forgotten the source of the energy or we do not know the source of the energy, therefore we take material things as final. This is our ignorance.
This prakṛti, this material world, is composed of these things: bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4). So wherefrom this came? That Kṛṣṇa explains, that "They are My energies." Because we have to know, so... To understand Kṛṣṇa means one must know what is this earth, what is this water, what is this fire, what is this air, what is this sky, what is this mind, what is this ego. These material things, they should know that wherefrom these things came. They only theorize that water is combination of some chemical, hydrogen, oxygen. But wherefrom the chemical came, hydrogen, oxygen? That they cannot answer. So therefore this is called acintya-śakti. Acintya-śakti. If you do not apply, if you refuse, acintya-śakti, in God, acintya-śakti, inconceivable energy, then there is no God. Acintya-śakti-sampannaḥ.
Now you can understand what is that acintya-śakti. Acintya-śakti you have got also, acintya-śakti, everyone, because we are part and parcel of God. Therefore minute... But we are... What is the ratio? The ratio is, it is said in the śāstra... What is that? Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca jīva-bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ sa cānantyāya kalpate (CC Madhya 19.140). Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya. Just giving an idea. What is that? The tip of the hair, just a small full stop, you divide this point into one hundred parts. And that one part again divide into one hundred parts. That is, mean, one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. That is a full-stop-like. That is the magnitude of the jīva, spirit, spiritual spark, molecular parts, atomic parts. So keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca jīva-bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ sa cānantyāya kalpate (CC Madhya 19.140).
So there is magnitude, but because in the material eyes we can see simply the gross thing, the subtle things we cannot understand. But from the śāstra you have to understand, from the śruti. Then you'll understand. There is verse in the Bhagavad-gītā, indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ manasas tu parā buddhiḥ (BG 3.42). Just like here it is said mano buddhiḥ. Manasas ca parā buddhiḥ. Finer or superior than the mind is intelligence. That is... Another place it is also explained that gross thing means these senses. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhuḥ. This is gross vision. I see a man means I see his body, his eyes, his ear, his hands and legs and everything. That is gross vision. But finer than these gross senses, there is mind which is controlling the senses. That you do not see. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ (BG 3.42). Then mind is controlled by the intelligence. Manasas ca parā buddhiḥ. So you have to study like that. Simply like layman if you dismiss that "There is no God, there is no soul," this is simply rascaldom, simply rascaldom. Don't remain rascals. Here is Bhagavad-gītā. Learn everything very particularly, very minutely. And it is open for everyone. Kṛṣṇa spoke Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna, not for Arjuna. He came for everyone because He loves everyone. Everyone is son.
- sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya
- mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ
- tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir
- ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā
- (BG 14.4)
He is the seed-giving father. Don't take Kṛṣṇa as a foreigner or something else. No. He is your father, original father, seed-giving father. And the material nature is the mother. Just like father and mother, the father giving seeds, similarly, God gives the seeds, and the mother, material nature, gives the body. That you have got experience. The father gives the seed in the womb of the mother, and mother creates the body. Similarly, all living entities, they are coming from Kṛṣṇa. It is not possible to create by chemicals. That is not possible. But one who is not convinced, rascal, he tries to make chemical combination to create living beings. This is foolishness.
So because we are learning knowledge from śruti, from the perfect person, we will never be convinced. We shall challenge, "You create, rascal, create first of all. Then talk. Otherwise I shall kick." (laughter) This is our challenge because I know. We know very well that it will not be possible to create living being by combination of chemicals. He is talking nonsense. That is not possible. So we have to study from śruti. Then we become learned. Then we can know what is our constitutional position. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati (BG 18.54). Then he does not lament and neither he aspires everything, because he knows everything is complete there, conducted by the Supreme Being. And the Supreme Being said, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10).
So this is the understanding of knowledge. So you take it very seriously, study Bhagavad-gītā and learn everything nicely, become learned, and jñānavān. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). And just try to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Then your life is successful.
Thank you very much. (break)
Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda? What happens to the mind, intelligence and false ego when the soul is liberated?
Prabhupāda: The soul has got its, his mind... What is this?
Indian man (2): Diwali festival.
Prabhupāda: Diwali. The soul is original consciousness. Soul has got his body, his mind, intelligence, everything. So this mind, material mind, is covered. As the soul is covered by the material things, similarly, the mind is also covered. So the spiritual life means as we become liberated, the mind also becomes liberated. The intelligence also becomes liberated. Any other question?
Indian man (3): When the soul leaves the body does it go with the intelligence and ego and...
Prabhupāda: This material covering, that forces him to get another body according to the mind desires. At the time of death the mind's desire—he gets the similar body. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). Therefore we have to practice how to remember Kṛṣṇa at the time of death. Then immediately we are transferred to the spiritual world.
Indian man (4): At the time of death, soul goes with the actions, the past?
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is action. If you... Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām (BG 9.25). If you practice devotional service, then at the time of death there is great possibility of understanding or remembering Kṛṣṇa. Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. So you have to practice. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are leading person to make the mind absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then there is chance of remembering Kṛṣṇa at the time of death. And as Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti: (BG 4.9) "That person, after giving up this body, he does not get any more material body." Then what kind of body? Mām eti. He gets the similar body as Kṛṣṇa, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1), for eternal life of blissfulness.
Indian man (2): But suppose a rascal remembers at the time of death Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: A rascal cannot. (laughter) But even if he remembers...
Indian man (2): He'll go to Kṛṣṇa.
Indian man (2): But what if they die in coma? What if they die in deep unconsciousness?
Prabhupāda: That is not very good. Coma is not good. That is the sign of sinful life. He must be conscious. That is good.
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, originally the desires come from the subtle body or from the soul?
Prabhupāda: No, mind.
Devotee: The mind.
Prabhupāda: Soul is now dependent on the mind; therefore mind has to be trained up. That is called yoga. Those who are too much in the bodily concept of life, the haṭha-yoga is recommended to control the mind. Yoga-indriya-saṁyamaḥ: "Yoga means to control the senses." So senses... The mind is the master of the senses. Therefore controlling the mind, yoga-indriya-saṁyamaḥ.
Devotee: Is there such a thing as having pure spiritual desires in the soul or not?
Prabhupāda: Spiritual, you are spiritual... Unless you understand that you are spirit, there is no question of practicing yoga or jñāna or bhakti. That is material platform, karmīs, mūḍhas. Unless you understand that you are Brahman, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, there is no question of other higher processes. Higher, other processes, there are four things: karma, jñāna, yoga, bhakti. So karma is meant for the grossest persons who are simply interested with this body. That is karma. And who are baffled in this bodily concept of life, wants to know what is the actual life, that is jñāna. And then practice of yoga. And the ultimate is bhakti. All these are yoga, karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, bhakti-yoga, haṭha-yoga, but Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, yoginām api sarveṣām: "Of all the yogis," mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā, "one who is thinking of Me always," śraddhāvān, "with faith." Bhajate. Bhajate means bhakti. From the word bhaja, bhakti comes. Bhaja sevā. So bhaja-dhātu, it's called bhakti. So here the very word is used, bhajate mām. Śraddhāvān bhajate mām. That means bhakti-yoga. So one who is engaged in bhakti-yoga, he is recommended as the first-class yogi.
- yoginām api sarveṣāṁ
- śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ
- sa me yuktatamo mataḥ
- (BG 6.47)
Kṛṣṇa says, "He is first-class yogi." So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are trying to make all first-class yogis.
Devotee (4): If we do not finish our Kṛṣṇa consciousness in this lifetime and we have to take birth in material world, can we worship the same spiritual master as our previous birth?
Prabhupāda: Who is fallen is called yoga-bhraṣṭa. So yoga-bhraṣṭa means he has fallen from the instruction of the spiritual master. But a spiritual master sometimes is so kind that he delivers him in the next birth also. But it is not our duty to bring the spiritual master to save me again in the next life. It is not very good disciple. (laughter)
Indian man (5): At the time of death some people becomes unconscious...
Prabhupāda: No unconscious. Consciousness there is. So long one is not death, mean, the soul is gone out of the body, his consciousness is there even in the sleeping condition.
Indian man (5): But can he hear? We say "Rāma, Rāma." Can he hear that?
Prabhupāda: If he is fortunate.
Devotee (6): Śrīla Prabhupāda, Kṛṣṇa gives us five gross sense and then he wants us to control. How?
Brahmānanda: Kṛṣṇa gives us five gross senses and He wants us to control them. How can we do this?
Prabhupāda: How you are being trained up? You do not know that? Why you are forbidden, "No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling"? This is controlling. If you don't accept this controlling, then you are lost.
Indian man (7): Śrīla Prabhupāda, from time immemorial we see that in India every time there has been a religious reform...
Prabhupāda: Why you are bringing India? Is it meant we are simply for Indian, do you think?
Indian man (7): No, no.
Prabhupāda: Then why bring in India?
Indian man (7): It is not as a nation. I'm just referring it because of the auspiciousness, that every time there has been a religious reformer or a prophet, he has been treated very nicely, but in other parts of the world, prophets or religious reformers have been mistreated.
Prabhupāda: Anyone who does not know what is Bhagavad-gītā and Kṛṣṇa, he is a rascal. He is not a prophet. He's a rascal. Nobody can become prophet without full knowledge of Kṛṣṇa. Not that everyone will become and be a prophet, no. That is stated in the Bhagavad... Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Anyone who has not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he is a narādhama. How he becomes a prophet? (laughter) Just see. Don't bring so-called prophets. They are all narādhamas, lowest of the mankind—and he is prophet. No. Prophet is not so cheap. Don't be misguided by these rascals. Kṛṣṇa says—it is not our manufacture—the sign, that anyone who does not know about Kṛṣṇa and he has not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he is narādhama.
Indian man (8): Is it that a man becomes a man after the death?
Prabhupāda: No guarantee.
Indian man (8): He may go to an animal.
Prabhupāda: Species. He may become a dog, and he may become a demigod also, according to his karma. Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. Api. Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni (BG 9.25). So according to his karma, he gets the next body. There is no guarantee that he'll get human body. Therefore it is very risky civilization at the modern time. They do not know what is the goal of life. Simply like cats and dogs, they are eating, sleeping, having sex life and dying. That's all. They do not know. Very risky life. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). This is the statement of the śāstra, "These rascals, they do not know that what is the goal of life, to understand Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa." Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). In the external energy of Kṛṣṇa, this bhūmir āpo... Bhinnā prakṛtir me aṣṭadhā. Bhinnā. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Bahir artha means this external, separated energy, material en... They are trying to become happy by adjustment of this bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). They are implicated with this bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ, external. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. So they are andha, blind. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. And they are leading other blind men. That's all.
Indian man (8): The Westerns are more unsure than the Easterns, or...?
Prabhupāda: No, Eastern are more at the present moment. This is the world. Material world is andha, all blind. There is no question of Eastern or Western. This is our manufacture, that Eastern is better than the Western. Just like stool. Stool, upside, little dry, and the downside, it is moist. If you say, "This side is better than the downside," (laughter) it is, after all, stool. So what is better side or...? (laughter) We don't make such things as Eastern or Western. We test whether he's Kṛṣṇa conscious. That's all. All right. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)