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In the material world, the world of duality, the name is not the substance. If you require water, simply by chanting "Water, water," your thirst will not be quenched. You require the substance water

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"In the material world, the world of duality, the name is not the substance. If you require water, simply by chanting"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Lord and Lord's name, They're the same, identical. Just like we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So this Kṛṣṇa name and the Kṛṣṇa person, identical. Because the Lord is absolute. In the material world, the world of duality, the name is not the substance. If you require water, simply by chanting "Water, water," your thirst will not be quenched. You require the substance water. But in the spiritual world, the Lord and His name, the same thing.


Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Father Tanner: So it is the action, rather than the . . . no, the exterior rather than the interior.

Prabhupāda: No, interior . . . well, of course, everyone has got interior tendency, but by practicing actually, exteriorly, that interior also is reformed. It is, by external behavior, the interior behavior also becomes fixed up. By practice. Therefore there is regular class so that he may be purified internally and externally.

Sa bāhyābhyantara-śuciḥ. Yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ sa bāhyābhyantara-śuciḥ (Garuḍa Purāṇa). If you constantly remember the Supreme Lord, so you become automatically purified, internally and externally. Because the Lord is absolute, so if we chant the Lord's holy name, the name is also Lord. He has no difference between His name and Himself.

Father Tanner: Well, you see, we make a difference between the law and the spirit of the law, or the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. And we can say a man can keep the letter of the law without in any way keeping the spirit of the law.

Prabhupāda: No, that is materially difference. But spiritually . . .

Father Tanner: Spiritually, that is different.

Prabhupāda: No. Spiritually, the Lord and His name, the Lord and His form, the Lord and His quality, they are all identical.

Devotee: Prabhupāda, there's a little misunderstanding. Prabhupāda is saying "Lord," not . . .

Father Tanner: Oh, you're saying "Lord." I'm sorry. I was saying "law."

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Devotee: Law, law, the command, law.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Lord.

Father Tanner: Yes. You can have the letter of the law . . .

Prabhupāda: No, I'm not speaking of law. I'm talking of Lord.

Father Tanner: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So Lord and Lord's name, they're the same, identical. Just like we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So this Kṛṣṇa name and the Kṛṣṇa person, identical. Because the Lord is absolute. In the material world, the world of duality, the name is not the substance. If you require water, simply by chanting "water, water," your thirst will not be quenched. You require the substance water. But in the spiritual world, the Lord and His name, the same thing.

If you chant the Lord's name, "Kṛṣṇa," or any name of Lord, that is identical with the Lord. Therefore by chanting the holy name of the Lord, you are associating with the Lord. And as soon as you associate with the Lord, you become purified. Because Lord is all-pure. Just like if you associate with fire, you become warm. Similarly, if you constantly associate with the Lord, you remain purified.

Therefore our principle is they are always chanting. Just like we are . . . I am chanting also. (holds up beads) Or reading some book. Or talking with you about Kṛṣṇa. So we are always connected with Kṛṣṇa, or God, in all our activities. The whole house, you'll see, they are engaged in some sort of work which has connection with Kṛṣṇa. There is no other work. So nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe. Anything attached with God, that is also godly.

Father Tanner: You say.

Mrs. Wells: I can see what Father Tanner means about the spiritual man on the outside not necessarily being pure on the inside.

Prabhupāda: No, he's not spiritual man. He's a hypocrite. He must be inside and outside correct. If one is outside correct, inside wrong, he's not spiritual man. We don't accept him.

Mrs. Wells: But you begin with the outside.

Prabhupāda: No. Inside and outside, both.

Mrs. Wells: But your principles pertain to the outside man.

Prabhupāda: Outside man?

Mrs. Wells: The actions . . .

Guest (1) (young British man): You said that the four pillars that you follow are outward manifestations. They belong to a material person.

Prabhupāda: Outward manifestation?

Guest (1): Hmm.

Prabhupāda: So outward manifestation . . . just like outwardly, iron rod, it is iron. Iron. Do you follow me?

Mrs. Wells: Yes, iron.

Prabhupāda: But you put the iron in the fire . . .

Mrs. Wells: Yes.

Prabhupāda: . . . so the iron becomes warm, warmer, and then at last, it becomes red hot. When the iron is red hot, it is no longer iron; it is fire. If you touch anywhere, it will burn. Although apparently it is iron rod, but because it has become red hot, it is fire.

Similarly, if you constantly keep in spiritual activities your outward body, although it is iron and matter, it becomes spiritualized. Try to understand this example. Iron rod put into the fire, when it is red hot, it is no longer iron rod—it is fire. Similarly this body, although material, if you constantly keep in touch with spiritual activities, then it is no longer material; it is spiritual. The body's also spiritual.