Haṁsadūta: But I have one more question Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: On the light.
Haṁsadūta: In our world here, there are material scientists and they understand things in a particular way. They understand, for instance...
Prabhupāda: Their way and our way is completely different.
Haṁsadūta: I know. But I mean, there must be... Suppose, on the heavenly planets, there must also be a class of men who understand things...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Anywhere within this material world, they are all conditioned souls. Their understanding is incomplete. Even Brahmā. Even Brahmā. Brahmā has admitted in his prayers that people..."Other rascal may say that he has understood You, but for my part, I say I never understood You." He has said like that. Have you read this portion? So even Brahmā cannot understand. What we? He says, "The other rascals may say." Where is that Brahma-stotra? In the first part, find out.
Haṁsadūta: No. It's in the Process of Creation isn't it?
Prabhupāda: No, no. In Kṛṣṇa Book. Where is that...? This is second part. I say always that...
Śyāmasundara: Second part?
Prabhupāda: That is Volume Two. No, no. It is not in Volume Two.
Revatīnandana: It's in Volume One, when Brahmā kidnaps the cowherd boys. When I went to Paris, they had gotten all confused. Someone was thinking that Brahmā, Lord Brahmā is not a pure devotee, because...
Prabhupāda: In one sense, not. In one sense.
Revatīnandana: By his behavior sometimes...
Prabhupāda: No, no, behavior... Because he is in the material world, he wants to lord it over. But a pure devotee has no such desire.
Haṁsadūta: But at the same time, he appeared as Ṭhākura Haridāsa in this world. So Brahmā, he appears as Ṭhākura Haridāsa with Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Prabhupāda: But Brahmā, it does not mean Brahmā cannot be pure devotee.
Revatīnandana: Does he become a pure devotee? Otherwise how he can see Kṛṣṇa and reveal Brahma-saṁhitā? Also he's the head of our disciplic succession. That's why I said, "No. He's a pure devotee." How can he be the head of our disciplic succession if he's not a pure devotee?
Haṁsadūta: He says, "My dear Lord, people may say that I am the master of all Vedic knowledge and I am supposed to be the creator of this universe. But it has been proved that I cannot understand Your personality, even though You are present before me just like a child. You are playing with Your boyfriends, calves and cows, which might imply that You do not even have sufficient education. You are appearing just like a village boy carrying Your food in Your hand and searching for Your calves, and yet there is so much difference between Your body and mine that I cannot estimate the potency of Your body. As I have already stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā, Your body is not material." He says, "Even though You are standing before me, I cannot..."
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Haṁsadūta: He says, "Even though You are present before me just like a child, I cannot understand." So people they think they understand it only when God is nowhere near.
Prabhupāda: No, this is the position. Even Brahmā cannot understand; what we can understand? So without bothering ourself... Jñāne prayāsam. Jñāne prayāsam means endeavor to understand. Namanta, give up this practice. Jñāne prayāsam udapasya namanta eva. Just become submissive. Submissive means that "We cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Simply let us serve." That's all. And develop your dormant love. That is perfection.
Haṁsadūta: Is that why Kṛṣṇa also says to Arjuna, He says, "What need is there of all this..."
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Haṁsadūta: In the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa also, He says to Arjuna, "What need is there of all this knowledge? Just know that with one spark of My splendor I am pervading everything."
Prabhupāda: That's all. How He is doing that, it is very difficult to know. (pause) Jñāne prayāsam udapasya namanta eva san-mukharitaṁ bhavadīya-vārtāṁ jīvanti. (break) ...in temple you'll have to sleep. Yes. So also keep it in mind that unless there are four, five devotees experienced, we should not center, open a center. Because alone he becomes polluted. Without any association, he thinks otherwise and becomes fallen down. That which has happened to Kṛṣṇa dāsa. When he was alone, he could not manage. There was debts and he became disgusted. You see.