Woman: I have just one more question, and that is also from an outsider's point of view. It appears to me that one of the most difficult aspects of Kṛṣṇa consciousness for someone to accept who's been brought up outside of that point of view is the Deities and the idea that they represent Kṛṣṇa. Could you talk a little bit about that?
Prabhupāda: Yes. At the present moment, because you are not trained up to see Kṛṣṇa, so Kṛṣṇa kindly appears before you as you can see. You can see wood, stone. You cannot see what is spirit. Even you don't see yourself. You are thinking, "I am this body." But you are spirit soul. You are seeing your father and mother daily, and when the father or mother dies, you cry. Why you are crying? "Now my father has gone." Where is your father gone? He is lying here. Why do you say he is gone? What is that thing which is gone? Why you say, "My father is gone," although lying on the bed? You have seen daily your father. Now you say, "My father is gone." So... But he is lying on the bed. So who has gone? What is your answer?
Woman: Where is God?
Jayatīrtha: Who has gone? If you see your dead father and you say that he is passed away, what has passed away?
Prabhupāda: Who is that father?
Woman: Only this material body is gone.
Prabhupāda: Material body is there, lying on the bed.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: His body is there. And you say, "My father is gone." So what is gone?
Woman: Well, his spirit is still...
Prabhupāda: But have you seen that spirit?
Woman: No.
Prabhupāda: Therefore you cannot see the spirit, and God is Supreme Spirit. Therefore, to show kindness upon you, He has appeared just like wood and stone so that you can see.
Woman: Oh, I see.
Prabhupāda: He is everything. He is spirit and matter, everything. But you cannot see Him as spiritual identity. Therefore He has appeared in material form so that you can see. This is Deity. He is God, but you cannot see Him in His original spiritual form at the present moment. Therefore, out of His unbounded mercy, He has appeared before you just like made of wood and stone so that you can see.
Woman: Thank you very much.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. So you are coming daily in our meeting?
Sandy Nixon: Not daily, but I'll come.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. This gentleman...?
Devotee: This is my father.
Father: Your Grace...
Prabhupāda: Oh. Thank you very much. (chuckles)
Devotee: And my mother.
Mother: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So you are all fortunate. You have got such a nice son.
Father: Thank you.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And he is giving you the best service by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. Don't think that he is out of home, he is lost, no. He is giving you the best service.
Father: Well, we're very pleased with him and we always have been. Thank you for helping him find happiness. It's something which he was able to find through your order. (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Thank you. They are very good boys.
Father: What's amazing to me is where you get the strength to keep the pace that you have. Can you tell me how you do that? (laughter) I am some years your junior, and I have difficult pace, keeping up.
Prabhupāda: The process is genuine, the process which I recommend and they follow. Then it is sure.
Devotee: Yes. He's saying that our lifestyle will enable you to have that strength also, by worshiping God.
Prabhupāda: Just like the physician. He gives you medicine, and he give you the process, the dose, how to take the medicine, how to take diet. If the patient follow, then he is cured. (break) ...the opportunity, human life. This process of God realization can be accepted by human being. It doesn't matter where he is born. Either in India or outside India, it doesn't matter. Any human being can take it up. That is the difference between the animal life and human life. The animal, the dog, he knows how to bark only, that's all. He cannot be taught about this process. But a human being can be. He has got that intelligence, every human being. So in this human form of life, if we do not take this process, how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then we will remain dogs. Because we are abusing the opportunity.
Father: What is it that Kṛṣṇa consciousness has that offers people so much more than other religions do?
Prabhupāda: This is religion. I have already explained that religion means to become lover of God. That is religion. When there is no love of God, that is not religion. Religion means—I have already explained—to know God and to love Him. So if you do not know what is God, where is the question of loving Him? So that is not religion. It is going on in the name of religion. But religion means to know God and to love Him. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇitām (SB 6.3.19). Can you find out this verse? Give him. You don't find?
Nitai: Yes, 3.19.
Prabhupāda: Third Chapter, nineteen verse.
Nitai:
- dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇitām
- na vai vidur ṛsayo nāpi devaḥ
- na siddha-mukhya asura manuṣyaḥ
- kuto nu vidyādhara-cāraṇādayaḥ
- (SB 6.3.19)
Prabhupāda: Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇitām: "The principles of religion is given by God." Just like the law. Law means the process of activities which is given by the government. You cannot make law at home. Is it clear?
Father: No, I'm having a language problem, I'm afraid.
Jayatīrtha: He says that law means that which is given by the government. You can't make your own law at home. So similarly, religion means that which is enunciated by the Lord. You can't make up your own process.
Father: Well, I guess I'm missing the point. My question was what does the Hare Kṛṣṇa consciousness have to offer that other religions don't have to offer as far as...
Prabhupāda: This is offering that you want to be religious, so you try to understand religious principles from God. Because if one is lawyer, if one wants to become a lawyer, he must learn laws which is given by the government. He cannot become a lawyer at home. Similarly, if you want to become religious, you must learn what is religion from God. You don't manufacture your own religion. That is not religion. This is the first principle. But if I do not know what is God, what is the order given by God, then what is religion? That is going on. Everyone is manufacturing his own religion. This is the modern method, that religion is private. Anyone can accept any type of religion. That is liberalism, is it not?
Jayatīrtha: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Just convince him.
Jayatīrtha: So do you understand? The idea is that this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is based on authority of the Vedas. And the Vedic literatures are coming directly from Kṛṣṇa. So we only accept it as truth what Kṛṣṇa says and we don't accept anybody's mental concoctions or speculations as being truth. And this is the problem with so many other religious movements today, that they depend on the interpretation or the...
Prabhupāda: Concoction.
Jayatīrtha: ...philosophy of some ordinary man. So this is the primary differential.
Prabhupāda: We don't say anything which is not spoken by God in the Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore it is appealing everywhere. Although it is in Sanskrit language, still, it is appealing. Just like if you go on the street and the signboard is, "Keep to the right," this is law. I cannot say, "What is the wrong if I keep to the left?" Then I am criminal. You cannot dictate. The government has said, "Keep to the right." You have to do that, that is law. If you violate, then you are criminal. Pay fine. But ordinarily, one may think, "What is the wrong there, instead of keeping right, if I keep to the left?" He may think like that, but he doesn't know that is criminal.
Father: Yes. In the Bhagavad-gītā, I'm told that there are some two hundred versions of that. Is that the case?
Prabhupāda: Two hundred verses?
Jayatīrtha: Two hundred versions, different interpretations, commentaries, translations...
Father: But my question is that if that is the case...
Prabhupāda: But how can you interpret...? That I have already explained. How can you interpret the government's order, "Keep to the left," and "Keep to the right"? You have no right to interpret. If you interpret, then you become a foolish man because that interpretation will not be accepted. If you say, "What is the wrong there? Both ways there are roads. So if I keep to the left, what is wrong there?" You can interpret like that. But as soon as you interpret like that, you become a criminal. So all these interpretation are unauthorized, criminal. That they do not know because they are foolish men. You cannot interpret.
Jayatīrtha: That's why our Bhagavad-gītā is called Bhagavad-gītā As It Is.
Prabhupāda: Ah. No interpretation.
Jayatīrtha: Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, "Become My devotee." And He tells Arjuna that "I am speaking this to you because you are My devotee and because you are My friend. Therefore you can understand." So the point is that if Kṛṣṇa says that you have to be a devotee and a friend of Kṛṣṇa to understand what He's saying, then that's the case. So because Śrīla Prabhupāda is the devotee of Kṛṣṇa and a friend of Kṛṣṇa, therefore he can give it to us as it is, whereas most other interpretations are written by scholars, by politicians, by poets...
Father: I wasn't aware of that difference.
Jayatīrtha: ...so many other persons who are not devotees of Kṛṣṇa and who are not friends of Kṛṣṇa, and therefore, what do they know about Bhagavad-gītā? Just like the court can only define what is actual accordance to the law and what isn't, so similarly, there has to be an authorized person.
Prabhupāda: Suppose you have written some letter to somebody, and he cannot understand. So if he consults somebody, that "What he has written?" Then that man must be your confidential person, who can understand your language. Even if I cannot understand what you have written, then I have to consult a person who understands you. But I cannot give my independent interpretation. That is not good. That is foolishness. But that is going on. They are thinking, "I am a big scholar. I can give my own interpretation." That is wrong.
Father: That's the reason for a lot of confusion.
Jayatīrtha: Yes.
Prabhupāda: They must create confusion because he is a foolish man. He is interpreting on the words of God. He is not a devotee. He has got other purposes as a politician or something else. So he wants to push on his views through Bhagavad-gītā. That is a cheating process. If he wants to speak something, he can write separate book. Why he should go through Bhagavad-gītā? That is cheating. But he knows, "Bhagavad-gītā is very popular book. If I push my philosophy through Bhagavad-gītā, it will be very easily accepted." That is going on. That is cheating. Why should you interpret? Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mād-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). And the scholar says, "No, no, it is not to Kṛṣṇa." Just see. Kṛṣṇa says that "You become My devotee." And the scholar says, "No, no, it is not necessary to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa person." This is going on, big scholar.
Father: Thank you very much, Your Grace. If I ask these questions, I'll take all your time.
Sandy Nixon: If you... May I ask one question more? I would like you to tell us that I can put in our article here if you have one sentence, one paragraph, that you would like to say to the world, (laughter) what would you say?
Jayatīrtha: She wants to put a message to the world.
Sandy Nixon: In capsule.
Prabhupāda: So? What I have to do? (laughter)
Jayatīrtha: I think she wants you to say, "Please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and your life will become sublime."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That I am saying always. Without any price. I don't charge, "You give me so many dollars. Then I shall give you."