Pañcadraviḍa: One devotee was talking with a Māyāvādī sannyāsī, famous sannyāsī. So he said that "Your desire to attain mukti, that is a material desire."
Prabhupāda: No, we don't want mukti.
Pañcadraviḍa: Yes. So . . .
Prabhupāda: Mukti flatters me: "Please accept me." We don't want mukti.
Pañcadraviḍa: So the devotee went on, "To want to become one with the Lord, that is material desire." So the Māyāvādī, he answered, he said, "No," he said, "to want to remain separate from the Lord and enjoy rasa, or exchange, with Him, that is also material desire. Because you want to stay two, God and you, so you can be separate just so you can enjoy an exchange. That is also a desire."
Prabhupāda: Therefore, because you have no brain, therefore you cannot understand the rasas with Kṛṣṇa. That is spiritual; that is not material. Ānanda-rasa. Ananda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). That is the Vedic statement. There is cinmaya. In the spiritual world there is ananda. You . . . You have no knowledge. You, due to your poor fund of knowledge, you think that in the spiritual world there is no rasa; it is simply void, negation of this rasa. Just like a diseased man, he is practiced to drink bitter medicine and pass stool on the bed and so many inconveniences. So if some of his friends says, "When you'll be cured, you'll be able to pass stool in the lavatory. You haven't got to pass stool . . ." Then he shudders: "Again I have to pass stool after becoming cured? Again I have to eat? No, no, this is not good. Make it zero." He has no idea what is the meaning of passing stool in healthy stage. It refreshes the body. We get good energy. That he cannot conceive. He thinks that "If there is passing of stool again, then it must be the same suffering as I am undergoing now in this condition."
So the Māyāvādī's idea of spiritual life means negation of these material activities. But they have no idea that similar activities are there in spiritual life, but that is not material. That is their poor fund of knowledge. Therefore you are . . . You are not understanding Caitanya-caritāmṛta, the rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtīv hlādinī-śaktir asmāt. That I am explaining for the last few days. That is not at all this material. So unless there is loving affair in the spiritual world, how here it is as perverted reflection? It is the obvert reflection of the reality. The reality is there. That they cannot understand. That is also hinted in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "There is another feature, or another nature," paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyaḥ (BG 8.20), "which is sanātana, is eternal." Here the rasas, on account of being material, they are flickering. But there, real rasa is permanent. Here the loving affairs between two parties finish as soon as the bodies finish. But there, there is no question of finishing. Increasing. Ānandambudhi-vardhanam (CC Antya 20.12), increasing. Harer nāma . . . (break) . . . in reality, "What I am," that can be understood through devotional service, not by karma, jñāna, yoga. But . . . Give this example, I mean to say, authoritative statement of Kṛṣṇa, that bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55).
Pañcadraviḍa: I didn't speak with him. Another devotee did.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Pañcadraviḍa: Another devotee spoke with this person.
Prabhupāda: So what is your answer, that you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa, as Kṛṣṇa says, without bhakti?
Pañcadraviḍa: Well, we're . . . They might answer that that's all right for understanding Kṛṣṇa, but the highest state is to merge with God, and then there's no more living entity, no more God. Everything becomes one.
Prabhupāda: That means you have become more than Kṛṣṇa. One who states like that, he has become more than Kṛṣṇa.
Viṣṇujana: Yes, they believe that.