Hṛdayānanda: ...absorbed in thinking that, for example, in this material world a sunset is very nice or something is very nice. But if, for example, in Māyāpur is a devotee free to, for example, enjoy the, all the scenery without...
Prabhupāda: Do you think Māyāpur is material world?
Hṛdayānanda: No.
Prabhupāda: Then? Why you are asking?
Hṛdayānanda: That is what I was thinking, that this is...
Prabhupāda: Dhāma. Therefore it is called dhāma. Dhāma means not material world. Goloka-dhāma, Vṛndāvana-dhāma. So dhāma is not material world. (aside:) Not to go away. (break) ...visible with these eyes, similarly, dhāma also is not visible with these eyes. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). That is dhāma. Premāñjana.