Young man: Can you explain subordination again?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Explain subordination again.
Prabhupāda: Subordination, it is simple. You are subordinate. You don't understand what is subordination? Is it very difficult? Are you not subordinate to somebody?
Young man: Well, yes, I suppose you could say I was.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You must. Everyone. Everyone must be subordinate, in subordination.
Young man: Yes, in a spiritual sense though, I don't feel subordinate to...
Prabhupāda: First of all you understand what is spiritual life, then... In the spiritual sense also you are subordinate because your nature is subordination. Spiritual, what do you mean by spiritual and material?
Young man: Well, like, my body is in a particular place and time and all of these, caste (?). If I have a job then I'm subordinate to my boss, but the real, my whole being, my real being, my inner being doesn't... I don't think that I am subordinate to my boss. I think that we would be more or less equal. In a temporary sense, we are...
Prabhupāda: Yes. This consciousness is very nice, that you are feeling dissatisfaction being subordinate to your boss. Is that not?
Young man: No, that's not right.
Young man: I don't especially...
Young man: I don't think that... Speaking about this specific incident, it isn't necessarily true that I would feel jealous of this guy because he was over me. But I just feel as beings we are more or less all equal. I mean, you know, it's kind of a philosophy that I have. I don't feel that I have to bow down to anybody and I don't feel anybody should bow down to me.
Prabhupāda: Why? Why? Why do not bow down? Why?
Young man: Because I don't feel that I owe him anything or he owes me anything.
Prabhupāda: So that is the disease. We are forced to bow down and we think that "I don't like to bow down." This is the disease.
Young man: He didn't force me to bow down.
Young man: He isn't forcing me to do anything. I'm just kind of there and he's kind of there.
Prabhupāda: No. Just try to understand. It is a very nice question. You say that "I do not want to bow down." Is it not?
Young man: That's basically true, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why?
Young man: Because I don't feel like I'm inferior to...
Prabhupāda: That is the disease. You have diagnosed your own disease. That is the disease of materialism. Everyone is thinking that "I want to be master. I don't wish to bow down myself." Everyone is thinking, not only yourself. Just try...
Young man: Uh...
Prabhupāda: Let me finish this. This is the disease, material disease. First of all try to understand. It is not your disease or my disease. Everyone's disease is this, that "Why shall I bow down? Why shall I become subordinate?" But nature is forcing me to become subordinate. Now who wants to meet death? Why people are dying? Can you answer this?
Young man: Why are people dying?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Nobody wants to die.
Young man: I thought it was a biological...
Prabhupāda: Just try to understand. Who is here... That means biological force. You are subordinate to biology. Then why do you say that you are independent?
Young man: Well, I feel that I'm...
Prabhupāda: You are feeling wrongly. That is my point. That is your disease.
Young man: I'm feeling lonely?
Prabhupāda: Yes, wrongly.
Young man: Wrongly?
Prabhupāda: Yes. You are subordinate. You must have to bow down. When death is there, you cannot say, "Oh, I don't obey you." Therefore you are subordinate.
Young man: I am subordinate to God, yes.
Prabhupāda: No, no, don't... Forget God. Just now we are speaking common sense.
Young man: Kṛṣṇa... I don't...
Prabhupāda: No. Don't speak of Kṛṣṇa. That is far away. You just try to understand that you do not want to die, why you are forced to death?
Young man: Why am I forced to death?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you are subordinate.
Young man: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you understand your position, that you are subordinate. You cannot declare that "I am free. I am not subordinate." If you are wishing that "I don't wish to be subordinate, don't wish to bow down," that is your disease.
Young man: What do you want me to... What...
Prabhupāda: No, first of all try to understand your disease. Then we shall diagnose your medicine.
Young man: I'm feeling wrongly, okay, but... But who do I or what... What exactly do I bow down to... I mean...
Prabhupāda: You are bowing down to everyone. You are bowing down to death, you are bowing down to disease, you are bowing down to old age. You are bowing down to so many things. You are forced. And still you are thinking that "I cannot bow down. I don't like." Because you are saying "I don't like," therefore you are being forced. You have to bow down. Why you forget your position? That is our disease. Therefore the next process is that "I am being forced to bow down." Now we have to find out "Where I shall be happy even by bowing down?" That is Kṛṣṇa. Your bowing down will not be stopped, because you are meant for that. But if you bow down to Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's representative, you become happy. Test this. You have to bow down. If you don't bow down to Kṛṣṇa and His representative, then you will be forced to bow down something else, māyā. That is your position. You cannot be free at any moment. But you'll feel... Just like a child is twenty-four hours bowing down to his parents. He's happy. He's happy. Mother says, "My dear child, please come down, sit down here." "Yes." He's happy. This is the nature. Simply you have to seek out where you have to bow down, that's all. That is Kṛṣṇa. You cannot stop your bowing down, but you have to see where you have to bow down. That's all. If you artificially think that "I'm not going to bow down anyone. I am independent," then you suffer. Simply you have to seek out the proper place where you have to bow down. That's all. All right. Chant. Give them prasādam. They are going. (kīrtana) (end)