Karandhara: Yes. But ideas don't always represent facts.
Prabhupāda: So idea is there. You say that it is not fact, but others say it is a fact. So how it will be mitigated? How it will be settled? "God" word is there. You say that it is an idea.
Candanācārya: A "sky flower" is an idea, but it's not fact.
Prabhupāda: No, just like God, let us stick on word, that God . . . you say it is an idea only. I say it is not an idea; it is fact.
Karandhara: Well, then they say: "By objective empirical analysis it has to be researched. Scientific."
Prabhupāda: Oh, then let us analyze. Analyze. Let us analyze. That . . . we say that God means Supreme, Supreme Being. So how you can say that Supreme Being is an idea? How you can say? You accept Supreme Being. So how you can say it is idea? It is fact.
Karandhara: Well, they say there is no necessity for a Supreme Being.
Prabhupāda: No, there's a necessity. If you don't accept, then you will be beaten with shoes. Because as soon as there is light, you have to accept supreme authority.
Karandhara: But that's an authority we have imposed upon ourselves.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because there is need; therefore you have done it. There is necessity.
Karandhara: Well, some of them say, because people are generally ignorant, therefore we need this idea of God.
Prabhupāda: But you are less than ignorant. You are less than ignorant. You are less than rascal. If I call you a rascal, then I give you some honor. (laughter)
Karandhara: Lenin said that God is just opiate of the people, just to keep them intoxicated.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no, no. That means Lenin wanted to become God. That's all. The God idea is there, but he cannot be God. Because he was under the laws of God, he died. He died. He could not save himself from death. Therefore he is not supreme authority. He accepted supreme authority, but he wanted himself to become the supreme authority. Now, when he died, he is not supreme authority. He is forced to die. Then there is another supreme authority.
Karandhara: Well, then they can say ultimately death is meaningless anyway.
Prabhupāda: Why meaningless? Then why you are afraid of death when I come to kill you?
Karandhara: Well, that it's meaningless doesn't mean I can't place some value on it at any given point.
Prabhupāda: Why meaningless? It has meaning. Then why you are fighting? Why you fought for Russian Revolution?
Karandhara: Well, they give the example like numbers. Numbers are only useful for a purpose, but actually they are meaningless.
Prabhupāda: The purpose is meaningless then. Then your purpose is meaningless.
Karandhara: Yes, they say ultimately everything is meaningless.
Prabhupāda: Then you are a rascal. You are working for meaningless things. Then you are a rascal. That's all. And that is my version, that you are a rascal number one.