People, they know that, "There is resultant action of this kind of sinful activity." He knows. Even if he does not know, he sees. Just like a man who has stolen, committed theft. One sees that he is arrested or he is punished, he is put into the prison, and still, he commits stealing. He knows. So similarly, we are hearing from the śāstra that, "If you commit this sin . . ." Just like māṁsa. Māṁsa, this very thing, means māṁ sa khadati. Therefore flesh is called māṁsa. "The animal which I am killing, he will have the right to kill me and eat me." That is going on—repetition, "I kill you this life. Next life you kill me. In this life you have become a cow or goat. Next time I'll become a cow or goat. You have the right to kill me." This is called karma-bandhana. So we hear from the śāstras. You may not believe, but we can see practically that a man who has committed murder, he is also hanged. There is no doubt about it. "Life for life." So how these foolish persons very, I mean to say, boldly killing animals? If it is a fact even in your state law that "life for life," how I can dare to commit murder or kill another animal? You see? And this is conclusion. The śāstra says that you have to pay that particular individual soul by your life. That is the meaning of māṁsa, the Sanskrit word māṁsa. Māṁsa khadati.
I am taking the risk. When I kill one animal for eating, I am taking the risk that, "This animal sometimes will kill me." Exactly in the same way, life for life, murder, murderer is hanged—that is the law of the state—so why not that law in the state of the Supreme? Is that very unreasonable? But they do not see. Parīkṣit Mahārāja says that dṛṣṭa-śruta. In the scriptures or in the religious law books I have heard it that this kind of sin will be reacted in this way. And dṛṣṭa, and I have seen also that a man committing murder is hanged. So dṛṣṭa-śruta yat pāpam.
So this kind of sinful activities, janānn apy, everyone knows. Yesterday we were speaking of seeing and hearing. These experiences gathered by seeing and hearing is very important. This is tangible. So these two words have been used, dṛṣṭa-śruta: "by hearing and by seeing." Everyone knows that there is sinful reaction. Janānn apy. What is that? Ātmano ahitam. Ātmanā: it is disastrous for his self. He has to undergo so much punishment. Still, karoti bhūyo vivaśaḥ. Vivaśaḥ means automatically. He has been habituated. Automatically he commits the same sin, vivaśa.
Prāyaścittam atho katham. Then, if he remains always a victim to the sinful reaction and if he is habituated to do that, so artificially this kind of confession in the church or giving some bribe to the bhaṭṭācārya, what is the meaning of this? It is practical question. If the man is habituated to commit sinful activities throughout the whole week, what is the use of his going to the church and confessing and give some bribe or . . . you take in any . . . any field.
So it is very intelligent question. There is practically no use. If you remain a thief always, so for your theft you are put into the prison, and as soon as you get out of the prison again you commit theft. He knows that, "I shall be again put into the prison" still, he commits the same thing. Actually there are many thieves. At least in India I have seen. Their business is stealing, and they are put into the jail, and as soon as he comes out, again commits the same thing and put into the jail for many days.
Himāvatī: Swāmī, many people also think that, "If you're sinful, how can church help you? What is the use of going to church and confessing . . . (indistinct) . . .?"
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you . . . that will be discussed. This is the point. This is being discussed. It is not the . . . it is not the question of atheism. Your point is, "What is the use of going to the church?" But the use is that if he goes to the church, if he actually hears about, I mean to say, glorious life, to become devotee, to understand God, then the utilization of going to the church is all right. But if he goes with that spirit that "I shall go to the church and my sinful activities will be counteracted by giving some bribe and going to the church, then it is (not?) very good . . ." But his motive is different. Churchgoing is not for that purpose. That is a facility.