Dr. Weir: Yes. But this comes back to what you were saying earlier on. You were saying it isn't necessary or sufficient to read the scriptures. Well if, as you just told me, you say what Kṛṣṇa has said, well then if I could find...
Prabhupāda: What Kṛṣṇa has said, that is not scripture.
Dr. Weir: No, but, if it's written somewhere I can read that, I don't need anybody else to tell me.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But if it is accepted by the great ācāryas that He's God then there is no doubt. If Kṛṣṇa is accepted God, by all the ācāryas, bona fide ācāryas, authorities.
Śyāmasundara: Well, I think what Prabhupāda is saying is that a spiritual master is requisite in order to transmit knowledge even though it may be revealed in the scriptures to the student, according to the time and place. Just like someone may be able to read in a book about how to perform a brain operation, but unless there's a master there to transmit that knowledge into reality, it's useless. It can't be performed.
Dr. Weir: That merely means, you might say, if you're going to be very thorough and precise, that the, it could be explained in greater detail, but it's easier to do it with a master. But you can go to a foreign language by reading a book, although it's much easier if you're...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like here is the medicine, diabetic. So I have accepted this medicine through a bona fide doctor. Although it is meant for diabetes, I have not accepted this medicine, neither it is advised that this medicine should be accepted by a bona fide physician. So I cannot see properly whether it is good for me. But when the physician, qualified physician, says, "Yes, it is bona fide. You can use it in this way." That is right.
Mensa Member: Coming back to your previous point, if he made a mistake and it's the wrong medicine, would you say he cheated you? Isn't that the point you were getting at?
Dr. Weir: This is what worried me.
Śyāmasundara: Yes, because if he purports to be a physician...
Mensa Member: I think he is a physician, and he makes a mistake, a healthy, genuine mistake.
Prabhupāda: Therefore we say, we have to receive knowledge from a person who does not commit any mistakes. That is our proposition.
Dr. Weir: Well, that would be going like God if you define it that way, you're (indistinct).
Mensa Member: That does seem a bit...
Prabhupāda: Therefore I said...
Śyāmasundara: This can be proven. This can be tested, if someone's cheating or not cheating can be tested on a factual basis. Similarly, this science can be tested...
Prabhupāda: Observation and experiment.
Śyāmasundara: Whether it has a good effect or it has a bad effect.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So similarly, just like this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is coming down from Kṛṣṇa through the chain of disciplic succession. So if it is actually given in the exact definition, that process, it is effective. And it is actually being experienced that it is effective.
Śyāmasundara: Just like this medicine...
Dr. Weir: Which may not, unfortunately... This is the danger of analogy. This medicine may work in ninety-nine cases out of a hundred and the hundredth one could kill the poor chap. Now you can't say that the physician was cheating in prescribing for the hundredth chap because he just didn't know.
Mensa Member: (indistinct) on the other hand the other medicine might have worked.
Dr. Weir: Hmmm.
Mensa Member: It is very dangerous. Analogy's awfully dangerous.
Dr. Weir: But then some people have to have a concrete example or they haven't any (indistinct) It's when you analyze the analogy that you can see it's difficult...