Śyāmasundara: If God is not an idea but He's substance, how do you mean that, substance? How do you define substance?
Prabhupāda: You define substance. What is your definition of substance?
Śyāmasundara: Substance is the...
Prabhupāda: Concrete.
Śyāmasundara: ... the realization of the idea.
Prabhupāda: I know. Something concrete. (indistinct). Substance is concrete. The gold idea and... Just like you know gold, and you know a big mountain. So now you form an idea, the gold mountain. This is idea. But when you see actually gold mountain, that is substance. This is difference between idea and substance. But you have never seen gold mountain but you say gold mountain. You combine some idea. You are thinking, "There is gold. Now if I get the mountain, like gold." So that is idea. But when you actually find a (indistinct), "Here is a gold mountain." That is fact. That is substance.
Śyāmasundara: Hegel's idea is that there is idea, then there is substance but the synthesis is spirit. Spirit combines both idea and substance.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but spirit is, according to our philosophy, the spirit is realized in three phases, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). The supreme spirit is realized in three phases. An example is given, just like you see from a distant place the mountain, you see just like a hazy cloud. You go forward, you will see something, substance, green, and if you enter it you'll see so many trees, so many animals. So you are seeing the same object but according to your understanding, somebody is saying, "Oh, it is a cloud." Somebody is saying, "It is some green (indistinct)," and somebody is saying, "No, it is very nice place." It is a question of where he is standing, to understand God. So those who are standing in distant place, for them imperson. Just like we are seeing the sunshine imperson, and the sun globe localized, and if you have got capacity to enter into the sun globe, you'll see sun god. Similarly, God is realized in three capacities, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). Either impersonal Brahman, or localized Paramātmā, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But if you somehow or other approach the Supreme Personality of Godhead, it is Kṛṣṇa. Then you understand the other two things. And Kṛṣṇa is explaining, brahmaṇo ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā. "I am the resting place of brahma-jyotir." Brahmā-saṁhitā says, yasya prabha (Bs. 5.40), this brahma-jyotir, impersonal brahma-jyotir is the bodily rays of Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, Paramātmā, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna (BG 18.61), that is another feature of Kṛṣṇa. He is sitting in everyone's heart. Just like the sun is reflected in thousands and millions of (indistinct). There are no so many suns, there is only one sun. How you will (indistinct)? So God is one but according to realization, one who has seen the (indistinct), he says, "Oh, there are millions of suns." And one who has not seen the (indistinct), he has seen only sunshine, "Sun is impersonal." It is a question of (indistinct) person who is realizing. But actually God is a person, sat-cit-ānanda-vigraha. That is (indistinct). We have got clear conception of God, sat-cit-ānanda-vigraha, Kṛṣṇa.
Śyāmasundara: His idea is that...
Prabhupāda: His idea, but we are talking of substance.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. First before, for instance we make a table, we have to have an idea about a table.
Prabhupāda: No, that makes... Anything, if you are trying to approach by your idea, that is not substance.
Śyāmasundara: No, he says first there is the idea of something, then the substance, but spirit is that which...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no that is, that is...
Śyāmasundara: ...has both the idea and the substance.
Prabhupāda: When you think that first of all let us have an idea. That is not substance.
Śyāmasundara: No, so we, for instance the table. I want to build a table. So I have an idea this is what it's shaped like. Then I gather the substance together. There is a table.
Prabhupāda: Now, why idea? If you are going to make a table, you have seen table, that is not idea, that is substance. Why do you say idea? Nonsense, it is not idea.
Śyāmasundara: Suppose I've never seen a table?
Prabhupāda: But then you cannot say what is table. (laughter)
Śyāmasundara: But I have an idea, I want to make something...
Prabhupāda: No, no, that is false. As soon as you speak of idea, that is nonsense. You cannot make an idea of God. That is nonsense. What do you think?
Devotee: (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Devotee: All ideas are coming from Kṛṣṇa. (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Yes. Idea is coming because there is substance.
Śyāmasundara: I'm not talking about God. I'm talking about the objects of the senses.
Prabhupāda: Anything, anything, you cannot make an idea of table. You are...
Śyāmasundara: I can make an idea...
Kīrtanānanda: First of all Hegel uses the word idea, he doesn't mean just like thinking, some mental image. He's using the term differently. I always thought.
Śyāmasundara: He's using it as a rational form which precedes the material form or physical form. Just like I can think in my mind that e equals mc squared...
Prabhupāda: Anyway, that you are speculating. We don't accept that.