Śyāmasundara: He says that we are alone in the world but we can be a "being for others."
Prabhupāda: Why he was alone? Why he would become being for others? He remained alone; let them remain alone.
Śyāmasundara: He says that we require other people for our self-realization, if we want to understand who I am.
Prabhupāda: That means he requires a guru.
Śyāmasundara: That is what he means.
Prabhupāda: Sometimes he means that it is blind, there is no end, there is no plan, again he wants to have a guru?
Śyāmasundara: He doesn't say guru, but he says other people.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Guru is also another man.
Śyāmasundara: We interact with other people in order to understand ourselves.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So why not the best man-guru? If we require other men to understand, then why not take the best man?
Śyāmasundara: He says because there are other people, that in the presence of others we feel ashamed.
Prabhupāda: No. There are many other people, many people, but we have to take help from others, and I must take help from the best man, who knows things.
Śyāmasundara: He has observed that if I am acting in bad faith, that I will be ashamed in the presence of others.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore you should take advice from a man who can give you right direction, so at the end you may not be ashamed; you may be glorious. That is the injunction of the Vedas: tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to be conversant with that science, transcendental science, one must approach a bona fide guru.
Śyāmasundara: His being ashamed before others...
Prabhupāda: Yes. You will be ashamed. If you are not guided by a superior man, you'll be ashamed. But if you are guided by a proper man you won't be ashamed; you'll be glorious.
Śyāmasundara: He says that if a man considers himself as an object, he is afraid to look inside himself, then he will also consider other people as objects. And that is the cause of the basic sickness of the world, that we treat each other as objects instead as persons.
Prabhupāda: That is a wrong conception. Everybody is a person.
Śyāmasundara: What is your remedy for seeing everyone as persons?
Prabhupāda: That is the real vision: everyone is person.
Śyāmasundara: What is the remedy, what is the cure, for seeing everyone as a person?
Prabhupāda: You see or not see, everyone is a person. So what does it mean?
Śyāmasundara: Supposing I want to observe everyone in their personal manifestation, I want to see everyone as a person.
Prabhupāda: You are not seeing everyone as a person?
Śyāmasundara: Now I am seeing everyone as an object—"He is black," "He is American," "He is white"—but I want to see everyone as a person.
Prabhupāda: That means discrimination. Every individual person has got discrimination. That is discrimination. That is discriminating "This is good," "This is bad," "This is black," "This is white." Duality. So he has got this discriminating power.
Śyāmasundara: But I want to see everyone as a person, not as an object. So how do I do that?
Prabhupāda: Because he is person, therefore he is discriminating.
Śyāmasundara: But how do I perceive someone as a person? How do I do it?
Prabhupāda: Because he has got discriminating power.
Śyāmasundara: What is the method for doing it? What is the method of seeing someone as a person?
Prabhupāda: There is no method. It is directly perceived. As soon as I see you, you have got individuality.
Śyāmasundara: But I don't see your individuality. I see you as an object.
Prabhupāda: Why do you see like that?
Śyāmasundara: I want to know how I can see you as a person. What is the cure? What is the remedy? What is the solution?
Prabhupāda: I don't follow what you are saying. Everyone is seeing. I am seeing you as a person, you are seeing me as a person.
Śyāmasundara: No. I am seeing someone as an object.
Devotee: How can we change our consciousness?
Śyāmasundara: No. I didn't say that. I want to know how I see someone as a person and not as an object. How do I do that? What is... You say that you can tell me how to see someone as a person.
Prabhupāda: Because whomever you see, he has got some individual propensity. Anyone you see, he has got some individual propensity. Therefore he is a person.
Śyāmasundara: So by observing someone's individual propensity, then I can see him as a person?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: I see. Instead of just seeing black, white, this or that, I look for individual propensities, so I appreciate those individual propensities?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Appreciate or not appreciate, it is there.
Śyāmasundara: He says that the fundamental project of man is his desire to be.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That means he is eternal. Because he is eternal, he has got that desire to be. Unfortunately, he is put under certain conditions that he cannot keep himself eternal. That is his problem. That problem we have solved—how to remain or to keep myself eternal. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.