Kim: Another question. I asked earlier about the nature of ātman, now the nature of Brahman?
Prabhupāda: Brahman means the greatest, so as the sky, to our experience the sky is greater. What is the sky? The sky is a combination of small atoms. Do you know that? So if the sky is Brahman, then it is a combination of small atoms, then the small atoms are also Brahman? Just like a huge stack of rice, they are called rice, and a small grain of rice, that is also rice. So therefore there are two kinds of Brahman—the component parts of the Brahman they are also Brahman, and whole Brahman is also Brahman. Do you follow?
Kim: I hear the words.
Prabhupāda: Why don't you understand?
Kim: I follow the analogy of the rice.
Prabhupāda: The sky, the Brahman. What is the sky? A combination of atoms. So the component parts they are also Brahman, otherwise how it is Brahman? Unless the component parts are Brahman, how is it Brahman? It is a combination of many component parts, small Brahman. Param Brahman. Param Brahman means the supreme. The sea water, ocean water. Ocean water is very big, that is Brahman. Big means Brahman. But what is this ocean water? Small molecules of water. Sometimes we see the sea waves, small molecules, cool. So it is combination of small Brahman. So, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Everything is Brahman. And we are a small, very small fragmental portion of Brahman. How small are we? One ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. We cannot see even the tip of the hair, very small point. And you have to divide it into ten thousand parts. And that one part—you, I, everyone. So small. So everything is Brahman. It is said sarva khalv idaṁ brahma. Everything is Brahman. Why? Because the Brahman is very big, but what is this big? The big is a combination of small molecules, atoms. What is your idea of Brahman?
Kim: From my own understanding I took it to be just the world, everything that is, but I don't understand.
Prabhupāda: Not clear idea.
Kim: I had an experience in New Zealand...
Prabhupāda: So therefore you have to experience from authority—what is Brahman. This is explanation of Brahman. So this Brahman realization is first, then Paramātmā realization, then God realization. Just like you realize the sunshine, very big, all over the universe, but you have to see wherefrom the sunshine is coming—the sun globe. That is localized. You are seeing just like a small ball, but actually this big thing, sunshine, is coming from it. Is it not? So which is important, the sunshine or the globe?
Kim: They are both important, but the sun is what produces the sunshine.
Prabhupāda: Similarly God the person is important, and by His bodily rays the whole thing is going on. Yasya prabhā prabhavato (Bs. 5.40). Brahmaṇo hi... Find out this verse-brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham.
Amogha:
- brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham
- amṛtasyāvyayasya ca
- śāśvatasya ca dharmasya
- sukhasyaikāntikasya ca
Translation: "And I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness, and which is immortal, imperishable and eternal."
Prabhupāda: Purport?
Amogha: Purport: "The constitution of Brahman is immortality, imperishability, eternity, and happiness. Brahman is the beginning of transcendental realization; Paramātmā, the Supersoul, is the middle, the second stage in transcendental realization; and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the ultimate realization of the Absolute Truth. Therefore both Paramātmā and the impersonal Brahman are within the Supreme Person. It is explained in the seventh chapter that material nature is a manifestation of the inferior energy of the Supreme Lord. The Lord impregnates the inferior material nature with the fragments of the superior nature, and that is the spiritual touch in the material nature. When a living entity, conditioned by this material nature, begins the cultivation of spiritual knowledge, he elevates himself from the position of material existence and gradually rises up to the Brahman conception of the Supreme. This attainment of the Brahman conception of life is the first stage of self-realization. At this stage, the Brahman-realized person is transcendental to the material position, but he is not actually perfect in Brahman realization. If he works, he can continue to stay in the Brahman position and then gradually rise up to the Paramatama realization and then to the realization of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There are many examples of this in Vedic literature. The four Kumaras were situated first in the impersonal Brahman conception of truth, but then they gradually rose to the platform of devotional service. One who cannot elevate himself beyond the impersonal conception of Brahman runs the risk of falling down. In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is stated that although a person may rise to the stage of impersonal Brahman, without going further, with no information of the Supreme Person, his intelligence is not perfectly clear. Therefore, in spite of being raised to the Brahman platform, there is the chance of falling down if one is not engaged in the devotional service of the Lord. In the Vedic language it is also said, parasya vai samhi evāyam labhvāndamhī bhavati: when one understands the personality of God, the reservoir of pleasure, Kṛṣṇa, he actually becomes transcendentally blissful."
Prabhupāda: That is required. Our nature is blissfulness. Unless we reach Kṛṣṇa, talk with Him, dance with Him, eat with Him, enjoy life, our perfection is imperfect, not complete. Simply Brahman realization, just like simply to see, a child can see also the sunshine, but that does not mean he knows what is the sun, although the sunshine is coming from the sun. So unless you understand what is the actual sun, what is the person within the sun globe, our knowledge is imperfect. Simply realization of the big volume of sunshine, is not perfect. It is also light, and the sun globe is also light, heat. But this heat and light is not sufficient knowledge of the complete heat and light there. That is the difference between Brahman realization and God realization.