Prabhupāda: Yes. That "pay for it" means, he has got this chance of human body. Now he will have to accept lower grade animal body. (French)
Yogeśvara: He says that at least on these points we are in agreement.
Prabhupāda: Therefore the real inconvenience is that I am eternal. I am now put into such condition that I have to change my body, and there is risk of getting degraded body. Therefore my problem is that—I am put into this condition, repetition of change of body—to get out of it—that is spiritual life—and transfer myself there. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyaḥ (BG 8.20). Just like we are in this material nature. If we transfer to that spiritual nature, then there is no more this problem, getting this body, again annihilate, again get another body, again annihilate. This problem is solved. And that is spiritual life. (French)
Yogeśvara: So he says they completely accept that there is a superior energy which can be attained.
Prabhupāda: So therefore human activities should be dovetailed for going back to home, back to Godhead. That is spiritual movement. (French)
Yogeśvara: This is also their idea. This is their point.
Prabhupāda: We are giving this idea in practical form. Why not cooperate with us? (French)
Yogeśvara: He says first of all, so far as cooperation is concerned, he is just one man. He is the president, although he is the president, still, he is only one man, and he can only speak in terms of cooperating with the spiritual movement among the more enlightened members of his group.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is required, because if the enlightened men of the society does something, others will follow. It is not that the general mass of people has to be educated. They will be automatically educated. They will follow. If the enlightened man is living in such a way that he is going to be transferred to the spiritual world, then others will follow. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ (BG 3.21). At least, there must be a class of men, ideal men, that they are preparing themselves for transferring to the spiritual world. Then people will see that "Here is the ideal man," and they will try to follow. (French) But if people see that "He is also like us. He is also drinking, he is also eating meat, and he is also having illicit sex," then where is the ideal man? Everyone is implicated with these things, sinful life.