Paramahaṁsa: Last week, Prabhupāda, you may have read that the Russians and the Americans sent up two rockets that met in outer space.
Prabhupāda: Hm, so what is the benefit?
Paramahaṁsa: Well, this is the point, is that... It was called the Soyez flight. In any case, they have announced... They made a joint speech where they said, "Together we can conquer outer space. That is the purpose." So now the Russians and the Americans are trying to get... to combine in their efforts to conquer.
Prabhupāda: Bora bora goye gala rasatala, vetta gore bole katha jala (?). There is a river. The horses, they can swim. So the river was so ferocious and many horses drowned. So one vetta gora, means third-class horse, he said, "How was the water? Let me try."
Paramahaṁsa: (laughing) They all drowned.
Prabhupāda: The vetta gora. These are vetta gora, horses with (remedy?).
Satsvarūpa: But they can point to progress, not that they're all drowning.
Prabhupāda: What is that progress?
Satsvarūpa: Well, people never thought they could reach the moon. Now they think they have.
Prabhupāda: So that is not progress. Progress means when you conquer death. That is progress.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why is that the only progress?
Prabhupāda: Because whatever you do, death will come and take it. So where is guarantee that you will enjoy?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Relatively we can enjoy.
Prabhupāda: Relatively everyone... The ant also thinking, "I am also some important..." That is Kṛṣṇa's proposal, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānu... BG 13.9. You are trying to get out of all kinds of miserable conditions, but here is your real misery, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi: birth, death, old age... First of all conquer them. Then talk of advance. You cannot conquer even on disease. There are so many persons suffering from disease. You cannot stop it, and you're making progress? What is that progress? It is all rascaldom.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we see that even your devotees, they are also subject to birth, death, disease and old age.
Prabhupāda: No, we do not say that we are making progress like you. We are trying to make spiritual progress. We are servant of God. We never say that we are very big men, Vaiṣṇava. Tṛṇād api sunīcena. We think most insignificant creature.
Paramahaṁsa: But what of our efforts to conquer cancer and tuberculosis?
Prabhupāda: No. Because we are conquering to... We are trying to avoid death. Then it is... Everything is cured. Cancer, cancer's father, grandfather, everything is cured. So we are trying for that. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti BG 4.9 . That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that "If you simply understand Me..." Janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Simply if you understand what is Kṛṣṇa, why He comes, what is the purpose, then you become conqueror over death. That is our philosophy. Simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa. That is our progress, how much we have understood Kṛṣṇa. And when one understands fully Kṛṣṇa-fully it is not possible; at least partially—he is conquering over death. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti BG 4.9 . That is real human life, how to conquer over death. Aihiṣṭhaṁ yat tat punar-janma-jāyāya. All the great sages and big, big kings, they left everything, went to the forest for austerity, penance. Why? To conquer over death. That is the mission. That... Everyone can do that, human life. And that is plainly explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, "Simply try to understand Me and you conquer over death." Simple thing.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But still we see, the Vaiṣṇavas... They may argue like this, that... A karmī may say that "Still, how do we know that you have conquered over death, because you're still..."
Prabhupāda: You cannot know. Because you are foolish, you cannot know. Just like the example is given: there is reel. You know? What is called? The children...
Paramahaṁsa: Swing?
Jayatīrtha: Ferris wheel?
Prabhupāda: No, no. In your country there is not, but in India there is a reel, reel-like. It rounds the thread for flying kite. What is called?
Kṛṣṇa-kanti: Just a ball of string.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Spool.
Paramahaṁsa: Kite line.
Prabhupāda: Kite line? How it is?
Paramahaṁsa: How it is? It's a line for a kite, and it's wound upon on a stick, and to make the kite go higher you unleash...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So it is going on. Sometimes the kite is going on, it is also rounding. And when the kite is coming down, that is also rounding. But you see one thing. But one thing is coming down; one is going up.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So it's defective vision which...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like a cat catching a rat in the mouth, his position, and catching the cub, kit, what is called?
Brahmānanda: Kitten.
Prabhupāda: You see that it is on the mouth, but one is feeling pleasure, and one is feeling finished. (laughter)
Yadubara: The materialists say that it's very morbid to talk so much about death. They say it is very depressing to speak so much about death.
Prabhupāda: Because they are rascals, they cannot conquer. Everyone doesn't like death, but because they cannot conquer, they say like that, "Grapes are sour. Don't bother." After jumping, jumping, jumping, when the grapes were not available, "It is sour, no use."