Pṛthu Putra: He says who can understand that someone is blind or not blind?
Yogeśvara: Who can judge.
Prabhupāda: But because he has no eyes, he cannot see. Therefore he has to hear. He has to hear. (French)
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: How can one discriminate what is a real authority and who is a blind person posing as an authority?
Yogeśvara: How can we tell a real authority?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: As opposed to someone who is posing as an authority?
Prabhupāda: This authority means just like you follow somebody. You are going to somewhere by aeroplane. You do not know. But others are purchasing ticket and going there, so you have to follow them. That's all. So the authority is if he does not know... Therefore we are giving the chance, the association of the devotee. The devotee, they are practicing something for going back to home, back to Godhead, so you have to mix with the devotees and then gradually understand.
Karandhara: No, what he's saying is: what is the standard of measurement? There are so many people saying they are the authority. How does one individually judge which one is the best or proper?
Prabhupāda: So that he has to judge himself. It is like this: just like if you eat, then you judge yourself whether you are satisfied or not. (French) The process is described. No, no, the process is described. First of all, the thing is that he is inquisitive to know the ultimate goal. That is first qualification, that he is actually searching after the goal of life, the actual. That is first qualification. If he has no such aim, that "I must find out the actual aim of life," then he will remain always in darkness. Then next thing, next process will be that he has to associate with person, those who are also actually the goal of life. And then next process is, as Bhagavān was telling last night, that we have no problem. Then next process will be how we have become free from all problem. Then he will say, "You do like this." Then, acting according to him, one who says that I have no problem, "So let me act like him," when he feels, "Yes, I have no problem," then it is fixed up. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says in the Buddhist philosophy there is these three things. There is these three steps.
Prabhupāda: No, no, apart from this philosophy, we are talking general, general talk. So when he understands, "Yes, I have also no problem," then he is fixed up. Then spiritual life begins. Yes. When he becomes problemless, no more problem, then spiritual life begins. So long he is busy to solve the problems of the material, that is no spiritual life. Find out this verse, yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete puruṣaṁ puruṣarṣabha, sama-duḥkha-sama... Yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete puruṣaṁ puruṣarṣabha. Y-a-m, yam.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete...
Prabhupāda: Ete, yes.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: 2.15.
Prabhupāda: Saḥ amṛtatvāya kalpate.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa:
- yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete
- puruṣaṁ puruṣarṣabha
- sama-duḥkha-sukhaṁ dhīraṁ
- so 'mṛtatvāya kalpate
"Translation: O best among men (Arjuna), the person who is not disturbed by happiness and distress and is steady in both is certainly eligible for liberation."
Prabhupāda: Yes. So long these material disturbances disturb him, he cannot get any spiritual life. Fixed up, that is the position of fixed up. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He's all right with this point. He agree with this point.
Prabhupāda: He will agree with all the points provided he is fixed up. (French) Not, (sic:) after death, in this life you can be fixed up, provided you associate with the persons who are fixed up. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says we have to be constantly fixed up, not only one moment and after it's slowing. We always have to be fixed up each time, each time, all the time, all the time.
Prabhupāda: Not each time. Just like our devotees. They come in the saṅkīrtana once, twice, thrice. He becomes interested. Then he becomes fixed up. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says to want to become fixed up, that is important, just on the moment.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless one is fixed up, his spiritual life does not begin. Spiritual life means fixed up, who is not agitated. Sama-duḥkha-sukhaṁ duḥkham. What is that? Same verse.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Sama-duḥkha-sukhaṁ dhīram. "unaltered in distress or happiness."
Prabhupāda: Is there any purport?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: "Anyone who is steady in his determination for the advanced stage of spiritual realization and can equally tolerate the onslaughts of distress and happiness is certainly a person eligible for liberation." (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says so we then just have to practice now.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Goal must be fixed up, practice must be there, and one must be fixed up. Then it will be... (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says it's very simple.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is simple. It is simple. First thing to know that I am not this body. Because within this body there is the living force. I am that living force. Then he will understand that there is living force in this big cosmic gigantic manifestation. There is a living force. So what is the relationship with that living force and this living force? Then when it is understood that "Living force is great, and I am small," then what is my duty? Here we see that the great takes service from the small. Therefore my business is to serve the great. That is final. In three lines you can understand the whole truth, provided you understood. But if you become rigid to your understanding, own understanding, then it is very difficult. Otherwise it is very simple. You are a living force. There is no doubt. Is there any doubt? You are a living force. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: No, he has no doubt.
Prabhupāda: Then there must be one living force for the whole cosmic manifestation. So He is also individual; I am also individual. But He is great; I am small. The small business is to serve the great. If the small falsely thinks himself that he is as great, that is ignorance. So one has to get out of this ignorance that he is thinking falsely that he is as great as the big. Then he is in fixed up. Yes. Then further progress.
Bhagavān: Then we can ask, "What is that great?"
Prabhupāda: Yes, that we are doing! You can understand very easily. Just like you want money. You are in need of money, but you have no sufficient money. So greatness means he has more than sufficient money. That is greatness. Suppose you are weak, and if He is like you, no. He is unlimitedly stronger than you. You have got knowledge, but not perfect knowledge. But He has got unlimited knowledge. In this way you can understand greatness. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He understands the point.
Prabhupāda: Greatness should be understood, comparing my position. We can understand, "This man is greater than me. He is superior than me." That we can understand. Similarly, we can understand. Just like we human being, we are floating, flying one biggest airplane, 747, and we are thinking we are very wonderful, but that great is floating millions of planets in the air. But the foolish man cannot see the process. He can see that a pilot is floating this airplane, so there must be one big pilot who is floating all these things. But he cannot see. Therefore he says, "Nature." So he cannot see. Just like a child he cannot see that within the plane there is a pilot (pronounces pee-lot, French pronunciation of "pilot") or pilot. He is thinking that the plane is moving automatically. So one who is foolish, he sees the cosmic wonderful work only. He does not know there is a pilot. And in the absence of that knowledge he is thinking that I am also being moved in that way. So so long I do not see the pilot of the cosmic movement, I am fool. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, na māṁ duṣkṛtinaḥ mūḍhāḥ. (laughs) Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15). His knowledge is lost.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: "Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, lowest amongst men, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons, do not surrender unto Me." (French)
Prabhupāda: So narādhama, means lowest of the mankind. In the human form of life one could understand that as there is a pilot in the aeroplane, there is a pilot on this big cosmic manifestation.
Yogeśvara: Yes, but his last reaction to that was that he always finds Indian analogies amusing.
Prabhupāda: But he has no other knowledge. Without analogy he cannot understand. Then it will be dogmatic. So if you go this way you are dogmatic, and if you this way, analogy. Then what way he will take? (French)
Prabhupāda: But you are a fool. In your own way means foolish way. You do not know. (French)
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: The example is that this body, there is a living force within the body which is causing it to move and to work, and that living force is the soul. And when the soul leaves this body, then the body is no longer moving and eating and talking and hearing and seeing. So in the same way in this universe there is a greater spiritual person, and His body, in a sense, is this whole universe, and it is moving on the same principle because He is the supreme consciousness.