Prabhupāda: Everything is, one after another, is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. So those who are responsible for giving up kula-dharma and jāti-dharma, and creating varṇa-saṅkara... Varṇa-saṅkara, just like brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, they are supposed to undergo the purificatory process daśa-vidhā-saṁskāra. So the first saṁskāra is garbhādhāna. So in this Bhāgavata it is said by Nārada that as soon as garbhādhāna-saṁskāra is not taken, immediately the whole family becomes śūdra. So who is observing the garbhādhāna-saṁskāra? Nobody.
Reporter: (laughs) Nobody.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Correct? In this age of Kali, everyone is to be accepted as śūdra. No brāhmaṇa, no kṣatriya, no vaiśya. All śūdra, or less than śūdra.
Prabhupāda: Pañcavān.(?) This is the position. So at the present moment, to reform that, you cannot take them to the original position. It is not possible, it is Kali-yuga. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). They are very slow, they don't accept the right path... Just like God is here, Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). But they're creating their own God. Even big, big leaders they are saying, "Eh, Kṛṣṇa, why Kṛṣṇa should be accepted?" Even big, big leaders, they do not believe that Kṛṣṇa was there on this planet, there was Kurukṣetra battle. You know better than me.
Prabhupāda: So, if big, big scholars say, when Kṛṣṇa says that man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī... (BG 18.65). The scholars say, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." You see? If now, I can frankly say, if leaders like Dr. Radhakrishnan, Gandhi and others, they mislead people, then how the people will be in normal condition? This is the position of India at the present moment. The leaders... Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). The leaders are blind. They have no training. They are not in disciplic succession. They do not know what is what, and they are taking the part of leadership, then everything is spoiled. Jāti-dharma, kula-dharma. And they have created varṇa-saṅkara.
Reporter: Yes. Everybody is varṇa-saṅkara.
Prabhupāda: Therefore the only remedy is
- harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam
- kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā
- (CC Adi 17.21)
This is the only, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the only remedy for rectification all the misgivings. Therefore any sane man, any thoughtful man, should try to understand the importance of this movement, and they should come and help. This is the...
Reporter: Hm. But what...?
Prabhupāda: It is most scientific.
Reporter: But what you are emphasizing is bhakti-yoga.
Reporter: But what I'm asking is how to bring the karma-yoga, the action, to transform the society, bring back into the...
Prabhupāda: Yes, the yoga in its preliminary stage is karma-yoga. Yoga, yoga means connecting.
Prabhupāda: So karma, when you...
Reporter: Yoga karma sukhośanām. (?)
Prabhupāda: Akarma sukhośanām.
Prabhupāda: So you are addicted to karma.
Prabhupāda: So if you bring bhakti, karma-miśra-bhakti, that is called karma-yoga. Similarly, you are addicted to speculation, jñāna. When you bring bhakti and mix with it, then it is jñāna-miśra-bhakti or jñāna-yoga. So, this things are there. Just like karma-yoga. Yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi, yat tapasyasi, kuruṣva tat mad-arpaṇam (BG 9.27). This is karma-yoga. You are doing something, everyone is engaged to do something, but Kṛṣṇa says yat karoṣi, never mind, even if you are a thief. Your business is stealing-steal. Yat karoṣi means that includes everything. Yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi, yat tapasyasi, kuruṣva tat mad-arpaṇam. "Give it to Me. The result, give it to Me." Karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu.
Reporter: Mā phaleṣu.
Prabhupāda: This is karma-yoga—when you do not take the result. Ah? You may do whatever you like, but if you, if the result, if you give to Kṛṣṇa, that is karma-yoga.
Reporter: Hm. Yeah, but karmaṇy evādhikāras te...
Reporter: This is the, the point that...
Prabhupāda: Yes, you have to work.
Reporter: But... So... If our responsibility is to act without attachment for the result, I accept, I agree with it.
Prabhupāda: But Kṛṣṇa says that purottama manaḥ (?). The result must be there.
Reporter: Yes. But that should be...
Prabhupāda: So, if you do not take the result, who will take it? It cannot...
Prabhupāda: Therefore you must be giving to someone, to who is the perfect person who can take it. That is Kṛṣṇa.
Reporter: Hm. Yeah.
Prabhupāda: So yat karoṣi, that is the... Arjuna, he was a fighter. He was a fighter, military man. So his business was to fight. But he fought for Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it's bhakti-yoga, karma-yoga, whatever you...
Reporter: Yeah. Yes. What I'm now asking is that what you are telling us is very important, that we must act for Kṛṣṇa.
Reporter: But Kṛṣṇa is telling to Arjuna where to act, and how to act, and what to act, that is "Fight." And at that moment He is telling to fight the Kauravas. Now, we are confused here, that what is our fight? What is our fight?
Prabhupāda: Our fight, it is not the same fight as Kurukṣetra.
Reporter: No, it's not same. Therefore we are in confusion, that what is our fight? Of course, we must surrender our...
Devotee: He wants to know how he will be engaged. Who will tell him what to do?
Prabhupāda: The Kṛṣṇa's representative will tell you. Kṛṣṇa is not there, but Kṛṣṇa's representative is there. So you have to ask the Kṛṣṇa's representative.
Reporter: So that's why I have come to you...
Reporter: ...to ask you.
Prabhupāda: If you think we are representative of Kṛṣṇa, that is good. (everyone laughs)
Reporter: Perhaps you can speak for the representative of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes, at least I'm directing all these boys.
Prabhupāda: They're thinking, "And to become Kṛṣṇa's representative is very difficult thing." It is not very difficult.
Reporter: It is not difficult.
Prabhupāda: Because Kṛṣṇa... Who is Kṛṣṇa's representative? Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, that
- āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa
- yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa
- (CC Madhya 7.128)
You understand Bengali?
Prabhupāda: He says that "By My order, you become a guru." "So what shall I do, sir? What is Your ājñāya, order?" That yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128)': "Whomever you meet, you just speak what Kṛṣṇa has spoken." That's all. What is the difficulty? If we speak what Kṛṣṇa has spoken, exactly... Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, without my interpretation, no nonsense. No. Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). There is no more superior truth above. Truly speaking, that here is Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa. There is no more superior person or authority than Kṛṣṇa. So what is our difficulty? We are exactly repeating the statement in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). We are saying the same thing. Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). We are asking these people, "Just surrender to Kṛṣṇa."
Reporter: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: "Don't bother with any other things." Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). So we are teaching them, that always think of Kṛṣṇa, always become devotee of Kṛṣṇa, always offer obeisances to Kṛṣṇa. So what is our difficulty? There is no difficulty. But if we actually do this, then I am Kṛṣṇa's representative. Who is representative? What the original master wants, if one does the same thing, he is representative. It is not difficult. But people will not do that. He'll try to avoid Kṛṣṇa and take Kṛṣṇa's book Bhagavad-gītā and interpret nonsensically and spoil the whole thing. This is going on. He's not ready to speak what Kṛṣṇa has spoken. He speaks his own words of the authority of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: This is going on. If you want to speak your own word, why you take Bhagavad-gītā? How much, aḥ, devilish mentality. You want to speak your own philosophy-speak. Why you take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā? But that is going on. They take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and speak their all nonsense things. They're not representative of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's representative is he who exactly speaks what Kṛṣṇa has spoken. It is not very difficult. So everyone can become Kṛṣṇa's representative, provided he speaks exactly like Kṛṣṇa.