Yogeśvara: ...there is giving. There is also taking. But it's not... The person who has achieved this ultimate perfection, whenever he takes, he immediately gives it to someone else.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. The transaction between two lovers, one gives, another takes. Sometimes one gives, another takes, another gives, and one takes. This is exchange. Similarly, feeding. I give something to my beloved to eat something. He also gives me something. I eat also. Similarly, I disclose my confidence unto my beloved. My beloved also discloses her or his confidence. These are loving exchanges.
Yogeśvara: He says that he understands that we are talking of love meaning two people, but does that mean that... Why can't we think of love in terms of an exchange between man and everything, between man and the cosmos?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Cosmos represents, as he says, consciousness. That is the person, consciousness. Just like if I love a tree, I love the leaves and twigs also. If I pour water on the root of the tree, it goes to the leaves, twigs, branches, automatically. So if we love the supreme consciousness, Supreme Person, who has got universal consciousness, then automatically my service goes to everywhere.
Yogeśvara: This is also what their philosophy is, he says.
Prabhupāda: So you cannot love everyone and anyone or everything without finding out the original source of everything.
Yogeśvara: The Rosicrucian order is a school that teaches its students to progress step by step towards that ultimate source of all sources.
Prabhupāda: So what is that step? What is that step?
Yogeśvara: He says it's a gradual progress, that their students come, they receive initiation and then they are guided. They are given certain principles, certain practices, and then gradually, at their own rate, by their own powers, they ultimately arrive at perfection.
Prabhupāda: So what is that ideal of perfection?
Yogeśvara: That it is nirvāṇa, it is the kingdom of Lord Jesus Christ. He says it is the ultimate point for which all men are ultimately striving.
Prabhupāda: So what is that? Nirvāṇa means zero. Everyone is trying for the zero?
Yogeśvara: (break) Nirvāṇa means something different for them?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Yogeśvara: (break) He says it is an entering into something that is alive and real.
Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa, this word is Sanskrit word. Nirvāṇa means finish. (break)
Yogeśvara: For them the word nirvāṇa means an end but an end to this material existence and an entrance into the silence of the Absolute, onto a level that is real, whereas this one is false. This one is rejected.
Prabhupāda: Why silence?
Yogeśvara: He says the term "entering into silence" is a mystic term that means...
Prabhupāda: He cannot explain. (break)