Candanācārya: . . . there must have been very many gurus. Were there many gurus then?
Prabhupāda: When? Guru or . . . first of all, try to understand what is the meaning of guru. Guru means heavy. So one who knows more than you, or one who knows perfectly, that, he is guru. So if you know anything perfectly, then you are guru. But if you do not know anything perfectly, then you are not a guru; you are rascal. So guru means one who knows perfectly. So if you find out somebody that he knows everything perfectly, then he is guru. That is the first prayer of Gurvaṣṭaka: saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam. Everyone is in the blazing fire of this material existence. It is just like forest fire. Just like if there is fire in the forest, all the inhabitants of forest, all the animals, they become so much in perturbed condition. So guru means to rescue from this forest fire. So therefore it is said, ghanāghanatvam.
A forest fire can be reduced or can be extinguished . . . fire, there must be water. But wherefrom the water will come? Your fire brigade, bucketful of water, will not save. The water must come from cloud. So therefore guru is the cloud. He has taken the mercy from the ocean, or from God, and he pours the mercy. Immediately the fire is extinguished, and you are saved. This is the saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam, prāptasya . . .
One who has received mercy from the Supreme, he can save. Nobody can save. Your so-called fire brigade or bucketful of water will not save. That is not possible. So as these rascals are simply trying to extinguish the blazing fire of material existence by so-called bucketful of water, it will not save. It will be waste of time. If the cloud comes, then it will be saved. So guru is the cloud. That is . . . saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanā . . . ghanāghanatvam means cloud, dense cloud. As soon as there is dense cloud and pours water—finished. All blazing fire finished. That is guru.
And Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, biṣāya-biṣānale dibāniśi hiyā jvale (from Prārthanā): "My heart is burned by the fire of this material existence." Tori bare nā kainu upāya: "I did not make any arrangement for getting out of this fire." Golokero prema-dhana, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana: "Now this hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana is coming from Goloka, from the spiritual world. I did not takes care of it," he is lamenting. So this is the fire extinguishing instrument: chant Hare Kṛṣṇa in this age, and the fire will be extinguished. (break) . . . prema-dhana hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana, rati nā janmilo kene tāya. (break)
Prajāpati: . . . śaktyāveśa-avatāra?
Prabhupāda: Guru is the mercy incarnation of God. Mercy incarnation. God is kind to everyone, so He is teaching everyone from within, but still, to make it still more explicit, He sends His mercy in the form of guru.
Prajāpati: The śaktyāveśa-avatāra means Kṛṣṇa coming in a form of a living entity empowered by Him for some special purpose.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Candanācārya: Guru is greater than śaktyāveśa-avatāra.
Prabhupāda: No. Guru is considered as Kṛṣṇa Himself. Guru-rūpa kṛṣṇa hana avatāra. Just to teach the conditioned soul, guru comes himself, er, Kṛṣṇa comes Himself in the form of guru. Therefore we sing in the Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura's prayer, sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ: "In every śāstra, guru is accepted as directly Kṛṣṇa." Sākṣāt. Sākṣāt means directly. Sākṣād-dharitvena, as Kṛṣṇa is accepted in every śāstra, sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktaḥ, it is said, uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ, and this statement is accepted by advanced devotees. It is not only statement, but it is accepted.
But the next question is, "Does it mean that guru is Kṛṣṇa? Therefore no more Kṛṣṇa wanted?" No. Kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya: "Guru is exalted because he is very confidential servant of Kṛṣṇa." Here it is clear. Not that he is respected as Kṛṣṇa, therefore he has become Kṛṣṇa. This is Māyāvāda, "He has become Kṛṣṇa." No. Kintu: "But don't think that there is no more Kṛṣṇa. Finished. Guru is here." Just like the Māyāvādī says, just like this rascal Guruji that, "I am Kṛṣṇa." Not that. Kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya. He is the most confidential servant. Vande guroḥ śrī-caraṇāravindam. This is clear explanation.
Prajāpati: When we hear . . .
Prabhupāda: Although he is respected as good as Kṛṣṇa, but he never says that, "I am Kṛṣṇa." He says: "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa." And actually he is the most confidential servant of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we distinguish in this way that sevya-bhagavān and sevaka-bhagavān: "worshipable God and worshiper God." You follow? God, but worshiper God.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Person Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Both of them God, but one God is worshipable, and another God is worshiper. So for the disciple, both of them are worshipable because both of them are God. That is the distinction. Sevya-bhagavān, sevaka-bhagavān. Prajāpati: Therefore, when we hear from the words . . . the words of guru, we are actually hearing Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is said, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ. If you please guru, then Kṛṣṇa is pleased, because he is saying the same thing. Just like we are . . . what we are doing? Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). We are saying that, "You just surrender to Kṛṣṇa." We are inventing nothing. Therefore I am guru. Because I am saying Kṛṣṇa's words, not my words, therefore I am guru. As soon as I say my words, then I am not guru. This is the significance.