Prabhupāda: Birth and death.
Scheuerman: Birth and death, right, right.
Prabhupāda: Because, I have got this life, you have got this life, so we shall give up this body, we have to accept another body. We have to enter again in the womb of the mother, and packed up for so many months. And nowadays there's a risk of losing life also. The mother is killing child.
Scheuerman: There's an area hopefully where we might be able to cooperate, this area of slaughter, senseless slaughter.
Prabhupāda: So many things. It is going on. So unless there is first-class man, who will guide them?
Kern: I think you ought to eliminate the second-class man who are soldiers. If you're training a man to be a soldier, he wants to fight.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, fighting is also required. When there is enemy, we are not discarding fighting. Fighting there will be. So long we are in the material world, there will be disagreement and there will be fight. You cannot stop it; that is not possible. So a class of men, they should be trained up for fighting. A class of men, they should be trained up for teaching. A class of men for producing food. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). There are so many things. If you take advantage of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement cooperatively, it will be very, very good for the whole human society. And if your America takes up this call very seriously, others will follow.
Scheuerman: Well I would be very interested, as the man who lives across the street right over here, pastor of St. Mark's parish, in talking with your local leadership and discussing whatever programs you are interested in working in in this particular community. And I think perhaps . . .
Prabhupāda: No community—everyone is welcome.
Scheuerman: Well, there are ways in which we might work together and cooperate.
Prabhupāda: Just like a school. A school is open for everyone. Whoever wants to take up education, he can come.
Scheuerman: I can understand that very well, because I have been a teacher for many years, and also the principal of the school, and I can understand your educational concepts and the importance of them. You cannot operate a school without discipline, without training. People cannot use their brains unless they are in order.
Prabhupāda: No, there must be proper training.
Kern: God consciousness . . . would you explain something of the religious experience of God consciousness?
Prabhupāda: No, God consciousness is the highest level. It is not possible for everyone. But in whatever platform he is, if there is cooperation with God consciousness movement, then he gets the result. Just like in this body . . . same example—leg's duty is different and brain duty is different, hand's duty is different, belly's duty different, but when there is cooperation, all the parts of the body derive the same benefit.
Scheuerman: Yes, I see. So if one has the experience of God in a cooperative, well, good and sound social body, then all will profit from that experience.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Scheuerman: I'd like to perhaps ask you to . . . what is the role of prayer? You may have another word that you utilize.
Devotee (1): Prayer is also accepted as devotional service.
Scheuerman: As devotional service.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There are nine kinds of devotional service. They are all the same. Different processes. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyam (SB 7.5.23). Vandanam, this vandanam is prayer. We are worshiping, Deity worship, and you are offering prayers in the church. So both of them we take as devotional service. We don't say that because you are offering prayer, it is less important than . . . no. Because it is . . . prayer is offered to the Supreme Lord. So that is devotional. That is devotion.