Prabhupāda: It is no question of sannyāsa. Sannyāsa, you take or not take, you must be in knowledge what is your next life.
Scholar: But if the . . .?
Prabhupāda: Do you mean to say we shall keep ourself in darkness about our next life? Is that your philosophy?
Scholar: Well, I think we have to start from child . . . we give a child educations, and then gṛhastha and vānaprastha . . .
Prabhupāda: That is all right, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, that is a . . . different stages.
Scholar: So if everybody is . . .
Prabhupāda: But the real education is that you have to die. You have to accept another body. What kind of body you are going to accept? If you do not know that, what is this meaning of gṛhastha and vānaprastha and sannyāsa? It is all rascal. If you do not . . . you miss the real point, then what is this meaning of this? There's no meaning. Simply by dressing in white cloth one becomes gṛhastha? And simply by dressing one, in this saffron cloth, he becomes sannyāsī? By changing dress he becomes everything? He must know that what is the aim of life. Everyone should know what is the ultimate goal of life.
Scholar: Yes.
Prabhupāda: If he does not know, if he is in the darkness for the next life, then what is the meaning of this gṛhastha and vānaprastha and this . . .?
Scholar: We believe in the stage of life, so we prepare from childhood, and after gṛhastha . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes, not only we, but everyone should prepare from the childhood. This is . . . this Bhagavad-gītā is not meant for a particular class of men. It is meant for the human society. So this education should be spread all over the world to save them from pitfalls of a life of darkness. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We do not mean that the Bhagavad-gītā is meant for the Hindus or for the Indians or for the Indonesians. No. It is meant for everyone. They should know the science.
Scholar: Are there Christian also, or Muslim also joining this . . .
Prabhupāda: So what this is . . . what's this? Don't you see? There are many Christians, many . . .
Scholar: Do they have to be Hindus first?
Prabhupāda: Well, why you are stressing to become Hindu and Christian? It is that education for understanding the values of life.
Scholar: Yes.
Prabhupāda: It is not the question of Hindu, Muslim. Any intelligent man will take it. Suppose if you want to be a great mathematician, does it mean that you must be a Hindu or Christian or Muhammadan?
Scholar: But by using threads, attributes of Hindu religion for this or sign of . . . (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: No, attributes . . . Hindu, the word is not to be found in our Vedic scripture. It is the name given by the Muhammadans. So that is going on. Actually it is called varṇāśrama-dharma: four varṇas, four āśramas. The four varṇas, the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra; and four āśramas—brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Combined together it is called varṇāśrama. So unless the . . . a human being follows this varṇāśrama principle he's not a human being; he's animal. Because animal has no varṇa, no āśrama.
The human society must be divided. Then, just like in this body there are four division—the head division, the arms division, the belly division and the leg division—all these are required for complete body. Although, by comparative study, head is the most important department, but still the leg is not that we don't require leg. Leg is also required. Similarly, the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, they're required to function the society perfectly. That is varṇa. And similarly, for spiritual emancipation there must be the division: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. So unless you accept this institution perfectly, you cannot develop your consciousness as perfect human being.
Scholar: This divisions only in Hindus.
Prabhupāda: No, this division is meant for everyone.
Scholar: Muhammadans also accept this divisions?
Scholar: Yes. They're accepting. If you don't accept any scientific truth, that is your business. That is your business. If you say—two plus two equal to four—"No, I don't accept," that is your business. But two plus two equal to four, that is a fact everywhere. Now how these boys have accepted? Now they have got sacred thread, they have become brahmin.
Scholar: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And they're acting as actually brahmin. There are many Muhammadans also. They came from Muhammadan. So it is the process of presenting the perfect educational system. Then everyone will accept. Any intelligent man will accept. It is a science.
So you have to push this scientific movement throughout the whole world. That is our program. It is not a so-called Hindu cult or a Indian cult. No. It is a science to be accepted by everyone if he at all wants to, I mean to say, purify or make his life perfect. Otherwise, he's in darkness. He does not know what he's going to accept another body. He has to accept another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). It does not say that this kind of body. Dehāntaram, another body. Not it is up to you to select what kind of body I am going to accept. I am going to become a cat or dog or a demigod or a big man or a . . . they do not know yet.
This science is unknown to the whole world. We are trying to push on this scientific movement. This is our position. So if you want to cooperate with this scientific movement, then we are prepared. But if you have some other idea, that is different thing. But if we take it seriously as a scientific movement, then we are prepared to cooperate. And it should do. Simply formality will not help us.