Prabhupāda: In 1942 there was a famine, man-made famine, and in India so many people practically died of starvation. Not died, but they died by eating. There was scarcity of foodstuff, but when public began to give them food, so they ate so much that they fell sick and died, so many people. Not by starvation, by eating. By starvation, nobody dies; by overeating, one dies. That is a statistic. The next death rate is for over-eating. In America is it not? Who said me the other day? The first death rate is from...
Śyāmasundara: From heart.
Prabhupāda: Heart trouble. And the next death rate is by overeating. So there cannot be any rivalry. Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Person, nityo nityānām... We are all persons. Just like you consider me, I am the head of your society, similarly, there are so many heads, another head. Brahmā is head. There are so many Brahmās. Then, above them, there is Mahā-Viṣṇu, head. In this way, if you analyze, you'll go to Kṛṣṇa, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1), the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
So He has provided everyone's food. There is no problem. It is mistake to accept it that "Because there is overpopulation in the world, there is problem." Just now like we were walking on the St. James Park, the swan, ducks, they are producing one dozen children at a time. And that is also twice, thrice in a year. So they have no problem. Where is the problem of overpopulation? They are not starving. Unless you go and capture them and kill them, they are not dying. You see from the birds, animals—nobody dies of starvation. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Kṛṣṇa is there. He is supplying food for everyone. So where...? There is no question of starvation. Then why rivalry? Rivalry means "I want to enjoy more sense gratification" That is rivalry. Otherwise, there is no question of rivalry. Everything is there, complete. Pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation). God's creation is perfect. There cannot be any imperfectness. Even there is overpopulation, God will supply food. Don't bother. But because we have no faith in God, because we have forgotten God, we do not know what is God, therefore we have created the economic problem. Otherwise there is no problem. You can see how they are jolly, they are walking. So by nature's study we have to learn. If we don't go to the Vedic knowledge, we can see that "Where is the problem in the lower animals?" There is no problem. They are confident. The problems for lower animal is there when they are in the city, but if they live natural life, there is no problem.
Therefore śāstra says, tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ (SB 1.5.18). In these different species of life we are wandering in different planets. So trying to solve the economic problem, so many leaders came to solve the economic problem and they went away. The problems remained where it was there. But they are coming and going. Kata catur-anana mari mari yavata.(?) The so-called leaders are coming and going, but because there is no God consciousness, the problems are there. In our country, big leaders like Gandhi and others, they came and went away. They thought "If the Britishers go away, then our problems will be solved," but actually there is no solution of problem. There is Pakistan problem, this problem, that problem. So many problems. So in this way we cannot solve our problems. The problems can be solved if we endeavor for developing our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then problems will be solved. Otherwise there is no problem. Read next line.
Pradyumna: "Driven by such consciousness, man turns to religion. He thus performs pious activities or religious functions in order to gain something material."
Prabhupāda: Now, formerly... Now also. Those who are not atheists, when there are problems, they turn to God, who are theists. Those who are atheists, they will not. That is, two classes of men there are: atheists and theists. The theist, who believes in God, whenever he is distressed, whenever he is facing some problem, he turns towards God: "God save us." That is nice, very nice. They are called pious. When there are problems, when they look towards God, such person is called pious. It is described in Bhagavad-gītā, catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtinaḥ arjuna. Sukṛtina means pious. Su means good, and kṛtina means activities. And similarly, the opposite number, that is called duṣkṛtina. Du means... Duṣ means bad, and kṛtina means activities.
So there are two classes of men. One class of men who are pious... Pious means those who are regularly following the religious principles. It does not matter what religion you follow. If you follow the religious principles in whichever religion you accept, then you are pious. If you do not follow the religious principles, then you are impious, duṣkṛtina. So at the present moment, practically all over the world they are no longer interested with God and religion. Just like in your city, London, there are so many churches for sale. Why? Because people have become duṣkṛtina. They are no more interested in religion and God. Just see. Otherwise, why the churches should be sold? People are not interested. In India also, the temples, many temples, they are uncared for. They are not for sale. So maybe some of them are also for sale. But I have seen many temples uncared for. At night, one dog is entering and living within the temple. So people have become disinterested in religion and God at the present moment. So therefore according to Bhagavad-gītā such persons are duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina means miscreants or always engaged in sinful activities. If you are not religious, then you must act sinfully.
So people are becoming duṣkṛtina. Instead of becoming sukṛtina, they are becoming duṣkṛtina. And as a result of that, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). They are becoming rascals and lowest of the mankind. And whatever their university degrees are there, that knowledge is useless. And they are not going to surrender to God. This is the present position. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. Those who are coming to God, they are called sukṛtina, pious. But generally common men, even though he is pious, he goes to God to get some material profit. That is being discussed. Go on.
Pradyumna: "But if such material gains are obtainable in other ways, then so-called religion is neglected. This is the situation in modern civilization."
Prabhupāda: Yes. For the leaders. They are seeing this poor man is going to church or to temple for asking God, "God give us our daily bread." They are taking the opportunity to spread atheism. They say, "Well, you have prayed for your bread in the temple or in the church. Have you got the bread?" They say, "No. Not yet." "All right. Come to me. You ask me bread." "Yes." They are innocent, "Yes, Mr. such and such, give me bread," and he gives bread. "Take this bread." Then they are convinced, "Oh, God cannot give us bread. Our political leader can give bread." This is, propaganda is going on. You see. "God cannot give us bread, but our political leader can give us bread." But they are innocent. They do not know that this rascal politician, wherefrom he has brought the bread? Has he manufactured in the factory wheat, rice, grains? Then unless God has given you grain, wheat, rice and other grains, how you can make bread? So far they cannot go. Actually, God gives us bread. If there is famine, if there is no production of grains, where is the politician, father, will (be) who able to give you bread? This requires little intelligence, that "Actually God is giving us bread, not this politician." But people have no such intelligence, and there is regular propaganda against God; so people are becoming godless. The whole civilization is now godless, and therefore there are so many sufferings. Go on.