Guest (1): Swamiji, do you recognize that India does need some method at this point...
Prabhupāda: Why you are speaking of India. Everyone needs, all over the world.
Guest (1): Because we are the most unfortunate one that with only...
Prabhupāda: You are unfortunate because you are now following misleaders. You do not follow the real leader.
Guest (1): We have only 2.4 percent of the land area and we support 16% of the human population. You see this land...
Prabhupāda: That is due to your ignorance. You have followed the so-called rascal politicians. You have not followed Kṛṣṇa. Therefore this misfortune is there. Misguided. Now...
Guest (1): Everything comes from the mother earth. We are in very short supply of things.
Prabhupāda: No, no. No shortage. That is everything supply. You have got the Vedic knowledge. You don't take care of that. You now manufacture your own knowledge. Now there is knowledge, this Bhagavad-gītā is perfect knowledge, but even a political leader like Gandhi, he says that I don't believe that there was anybody like Kṛṣṇa living. This is your leader. All the ācāryas, previous ācāryas, big, big ācāryas, Śaṅkarācārya, big, big, stalwart, learned, they have accepted Kṛṣṇa. Now Gandhi says, "I don't believe." Now you are guided by Gandhi, you are not guided by the ācāryas. That is your misfortune. You are not guided by Kṛṣṇa. You are guided by Dr. Radhakrishnan. That is the misfortune. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31), one blind man is being, is following another blind man. That is going on. That is going on all over the world, not only in India.
Guest (2): I think Mahatma Gandhi followed the Gītā, all these...
Prabhupāda: But he did not believe in Kṛṣṇa and he followed Gītā. Just see.
Guest (2): (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: No, just try to understand the psychology. He says plainly that I do not believe there was anybody Kṛṣṇa, living ever. And he's following Kṛṣṇa's instruction. Just see his position.
Guest (2): No, he must have also answered this question.
Prabhupāda: No, no, there is no questioning. If you do not believe in somebody, how you are reading His book of knowledge?
Guest (2): That's my point also.
Prabhupāda: Yes, so therefore... This kind of leader we are following, contradictory. That is our misfortune.
Guest (1): Swamiji we are not following any person but we do see the realities all around the world.
Prabhupāda: Realities... If you have no knowledge, what do you know about reality? If you have no knowledge, then what is reality, what is non-reality, how can you know? If your knowledge is imperfect, then how you can say reality? Suppose beyond this wall you cannot see, and how you can speak of the reality beyond this wall? That is misfortune. You do not see what is there clearly, and you are speaking on the reality. Your senses are defective. What do you know about reality?
Guest (1): In the spiritual level yes, we are very blind.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is reality.
Guest (1): But at the material level, at the level where people eat their food and live their lives, I think...
Prabhupāda: That is also on account of presence of the spirit soul. Actually it... Whatever little you are doing on account of presence of the spirit soul, as soon as the spirit soul is gone then your body and senses are simply lump of matter. So you are working with that lump of matter on account of presence of the spirit soul. Therefore that is more important. To understand what is that spirit soul, how it is working, what is his position, that, that is real knowledge. Therefore Kṛṣṇa begins in the Bhagavad-gītā, first lesson, about the spirit soul, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So you are studying the deha, that we are discussing just now. One is studying the motor car but he has no knowledge of the driver.
Dr. Wolf: Śrīla Prabhupāda, may I venture very humbly to this opportunity of saying something I've experienced so much with people, that they would say, "Oh yes, we are ready to respect the spiritual values, but we live in this real world, in this material world and so we would rather not have the spiritual values interfere with it, settle everything in the material sense."
Prabhupāda: No, they, what they are saying, "real world," that is unreal.
Dr. Wolf: They don't realize that.
Prabhupāda: No, their knowledge is so imperfect, they're taking asatyere satya kori māni. Asatyere, you understand Bengali? Asatyere satya kori māni, accepting the untruth as truth. Asatyere nitāi-pada pāsariyā, ahaṅkāre matta hoiyā nitāi-pada pāsariyā, asatyere satya kori māni, by forgetting our relationship with God and being proud of their so-called... (break) That motor car is not your life. That is being misguided. Everyone is thinking that this body, motor car, is everything. But within, the driver, he's starving. So how long he'll carry on this motor car. So first of all take care of the driver who will protect this motor car nicely. And if the driver is a nonsense, he's starving, then how can I expect the car will go very nicely. It will create disaster. Disaster means... Suppose you have got very nice car, Cadillac or, many good cars there are, Rolls-Royce, and he smashes. Then he'll get ordinary car. This human body is smashed... (break) ...hāntara-prāptiḥ, you enter into the dog's body, finished. That is not in your control, that is God's control, nature's control. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), it is not under your control or so-called science. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27), kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22), these things are there.