Nīlakaṇṭha: Some people are very, the public, they're very satisfied: "Oh, I am an American, and we have done this. We have gone to the moon. We are so good."
Prabhupāda: Why don't you say: "We have gone to Kṛṣṇa-loka, Vṛndāvana, which you have no information"?
Brahmānanda: Then all their curiosity will be satisfied.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is called "scientific advancement." (pause) Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Can we hear a little bit from the Sāṅkhya philosophy?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Sāṅkhya philosophy of Lord Kapiladeva? The creative elements.
Prabhupāda: Sāṅkhya philosophy is also analysis of the material elements. That's all. Your scientific research is also sāṅkhya philosophy. Sāṅ, sāṅkhya, it comes from the word, "saṅ-khyā".
Svarūpa Dāmodara: To count?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Count, count. That's all. Analytically. What are the ingredients? Analytical studies. That is called saṅ-khyā, count. Suppose you take this sand. You count. It is called sāṅkhya. So, from the saṅkhyā, the word, it comes sāṅkhya, knowing analytically. This is sāṅkhya philosophy. So you are also sāṅkhya philosopher. Everyone is sāṅkhya philosopher. We are also sāṅkhya philosopher. Because we are counting the material elements, as Kṛṣṇa says: bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). We are analyzing: "This is land, this is water, this is air, this is sunshine, fire." Then I am counting with my mind, intelligence, ego. And further, I do not know. Kṛṣṇa says: "There is further." That is the living force. That they do not know. They are thinking: "Life is combination of these matters." But Kṛṣṇa says: "No." Apareyam. This is inferior. The superior energy is living entity. So we are also sāṅkhya philosopher. But we are taking direction from Kṛṣṇa, and they're making their own attempt. That is the difference. They're depending on their own intelligence. We don't depend on my own intelligence. We depend on Kṛṣṇa's intelligence. That is the difference. Then, if Kṛṣṇa is perfect, then my intelligence is perfect. I may be not perfect, but because I take Kṛṣṇa's intelligence, therefore I'm perfect.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The, the nature of the inferior and the superior energies...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...are also described in the sāṅkhya philosophy?
Prabhupāda: They do not know superior energy. They, they simply analyze the material energy, just you are doing. You do not know. The scientists, they do not know that there is spirit soul. Is it? Do they know?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.
Prabhupāda: So similarly the sāṅkhya philosophy also, they do not know what is spirit soul. Simply they're analyzing the material.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So just the creative material elements?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Material elements are not creative. Creative is the soul. Just like you make something with matter. Matter does not create itself. You living entity, you take them, hydrogen, oxygen, mix them, and becomes water. So matter it, itself, has no creative energy. You keep here one bottle of hydrogen and... Will they make water? Will they make?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Hydrogen, oxygen?
Prabhupāda: Yes, if you keep here hydrogen bottle, oxygen. Will the combination come in contact?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Unless it is not mixed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore you require a superior energy. This is inferior energy, and the superior energy comes, mixes. Then the fact is there. The inferior energy has no power unless the superior energy tackles. Just like this sea will remain calm and quiet. But another superior, air, when it pushes, it becomes high waves. It has no power. Another superior... Similarly another superior, another superior, another superior. So ultimately Kṛṣṇa, the most superior. This is research. These waves are not moving by itself. Although the vast mass of water is there. When the superior energy, air, pushes it, it becomes big waves.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the action of force is necessary?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Force.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is some scientists' theory, Newton's? That originally there must be some pushing. What is it? Whose theory it is? To set in motion.
Devotee: Newton?
Prabhupāda: I think Newton's.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The Newton has the laws of motion.
Prabhupāda: Motion. So one must give the motion. Then another motion, another motion, another motion. Just like big, big, that trucks, railway, trucks. The engine pushes one truck. Have you seen shunting? The, the truck pushes. Another truck, another, kat, kat, kat, kat, kat, kat, kat, kat. Like that.
Brahmānanda: Shunting, yeah.
Prabhupāda: So who is giving the pushing? The living entity, driver. A big truck is being pushed: kata kak kata kak kata kak kata kak, one after another. Similarly the whole creation, Kṛṣṇa is giving the pushing. Then one after another, one after another, one after another working. You see. mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). That is stated in the Bha... mayādhyakṣeṇa. Kṛṣṇa gives the pushing first. Then everything comes, one after another. But His pushing capacity is so perfect that everything is coming out perfect, perfect, perfect, perfect. Just like Kṛṣṇa says: bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). "I am the seed of everything created." Now take the seed of the banyan tree. Kṛṣṇa has created. He says, "I am the seed." Now you sow the seed. A big tree will come out. Big tree will come out. Not only big tree. Many millions of seeds will come out of it. And each seed, again big tree. So the original seed, Kṛṣṇa, pushes. Then one after another, one after another, one after another... So you are simply observing when the things are coming into existence by such pushing. But you are trying out, trying to find out who is the original pusher. That you do not know. That you do not know. Who has originally pushed this energy? That you do not know.