Caitanya Mahaprabhu at that time was sixteen years old boy, but He was very learned logician. So the Kesava Kasmiri, he was traveling all over India by, I mean to say, competing other panditas, other learned scholars. So he, everywhere he was victorious

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"Caitanya Mahaprabhu at that time was sixteen years old boy, but He was very learned logician. So the Kesava Kasmiri, he was traveling all over India by, I mean to say, competing other panditas, other learned scholars. So he, everywhere he was victorious"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Caitanya Mahāprabhu at that time was sixteen years old boy, but He was very learned logician. So the Keśava Kāśmīrī, he was traveling all over India by, I mean to say, competing other paṇḍitas, other learned scholars. So he, everywhere he was victorious. So he came to Navadvīpa. And in those days Navadvīpa and Benares and Udipi and Kashmir, four, five places, were very scholarly.

Prabhupāda: Then the analogy and metaphor should be like that. Nothing should be twice repeated. So there is Sāhitya-ratna in Sanskrit, Sāhitya-ratna. Caitanya Mahāprabhu defeated one great scholar simply by little mistake. Yes. Keśava Kāśmīrī. Keśava Kāśmīrī was great scholar, and Sanskrit great scholar means he must fluently speak in Sanskrit verses everything.

Allen Ginsberg: Everything he says must be done in perfect Sanskrit verses?

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is... Yes. That is Sanskrit scholar. Not in prose. He'll go on composing verses. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu at that time was sixteen years old boy, but He was very learned logician. So the Keśava Kāśmīrī, he was traveling all over India by, I mean to say, competing other paṇḍitas, other learned scholars. So he, everywhere he was victorious. So he came to Navadvīpa. And in those days Navadvīpa and Benares and Udipi and Kashmir, four, five places, were very scholarly.

Allen Ginsberg: I have been to Birbhum.

Prabhupāda: Birbhum.

Allen Ginsberg: I've been through Birbhum, yes. Navadvīpa also.

Prabhupāda: So when he came to Navadvīpa, that was the... In all other places he was victorious. So all the Navadvīpa paṇḍitas, they conferred that "Nimāi Paṇḍita should be forwarded to talk with him. And if he is defeated by Nimāi Paṇḍita, then we'll become victorious because a boy has defeated him. But if Nimāi Paṇḍita becomes defeated, then we'll get another chance: 'No, you have defeated boy. Let us come.' " In this way they make. So Keśava Kāśmīrī was informed that first of all he'll have to talk with Nimāi Paṇḍita. So one day Nimāi Paṇḍita, boy Nimāi Paṇḍita, was talking with his disciples, students. And Keśava Kāśmīrī was strolling on the Ganges side. So he heard that this boy is Nimāi Paṇḍita. "Oh, I will have to talk with Him? He is a boy." So he went there, and when He was acquainted that Keśava Kāśmīrī..., "Oh, please come down, sit." So Nimāi Paṇḍita said that "I have heard that you are so learned scholar. Now we are on the Ganges side. You can chant the glorification of mother Ganges. She may hear and enjoy." So he was very learned scholar. Immediately he composed hundred verses, one hundred. And fluent, very fluently he went on. Then, out of that one hundred verses, in the sixty-fourth verse there was some poetic discrepancies. The word was bhavānī-bhārtā. Bhavānī means the wife of Bhava. Lord Śiva is called Bhava. Lord Brahmā is called Aja, and Lord Śiva is called Bhava. Bhava means "from whom everything is born." Lord Śiva is the father of this Bhava. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "In the sixty-fourth verse you have stated, bhavānī-bhārtā. Bhavānī means the husband of... Bhavānī means the wife of Bhava, Lord Śiva. So it is known that she has husband. Then why you say bhārtā, again 'husband'?" He was learned scholar. He could understand, "Yes." Dvir-ukti-dośa. This is called dvir-ukti-dośa, repeating twice one thing. Dvir-ukti-dośa. That is dośa. Dośa means fault.

Allen Ginsberg: Means?

Prabhupāda: Dośa. In Sanskrit word it is called dvir-ukti-dośa. Dvi means two. Rukti means utterance. And dośa means fault.

Allen Ginsberg: Fault. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Fault. Yes. So dvir-ukti-dośa. So he was conscious. Then he said, "Well, I understand that you are a student of grammar. How do you detect this, this literary discrepancies?" "No. I am student. I am your student. I do not pose. I am not scholar, but I have heard this is told like that. From other scholars I have heard." "How could You remember? I cited one hundred verses and how do You remember the sixty-fourth verses?" "Oh, I can repeat the whole verses."

Allen Ginsberg: (laughs) Uh huh.

Prabhupāda: "How is that, that you can repeat? How is that?" "Oh, that is grace of mother Sarasvatī. Just like you can compose a hundred verses within a few minutes, I can, whatever you say, I can remember immediately." Formerly that was the system of understanding Vedas, śruti, simply by hearing. Once they hear from the spiritual master, they will remember. The memory was so sharp. Therefore this brahmacārī system is so nice. They can enhance their memorizing power, brahmacārī.

Allen Ginsberg: Did Caitanya, did Lord Caitanya worship Sarasvatī? No.

Prabhupāda: No. He was Vaiṣṇava. But every demigod is worshiped. It is not that one should neglect...

Allen Ginsberg: Oh, respect. He respected.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Allen Ginsberg: I know one mantra in Bengali to Sarasvatī. Jaya jaya devī jaya jara sari, kuchuku viśori mukta vihārī vīra nandita pulake vihati bhagavati... (?) (etc)

Prabhupāda: Oh. Yes. Sarasvatī-stotra, yes. Students are supposed to offer stotras, students specially.

Allen Ginsberg: So that's a mantra for students, for Sarasvatī.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Vidya, the goddess of learning, Sarasvatī. In our childhood we used to worship Sarasvatī: "Please, mother, give me pass this examination." That was our prayer. So other students, they laughed very loudly. They thought that "Caitanya has come out very victorious within a second." He said, "No. Stop." Then He stopped all these talkings, and... "So you are so... I have to talk with you. You are very learned." Ordinary formalities. Then he went away. And he was also great worshiper of mother Sarasvatī. Then he began to pray to Sarasvatī, "Mother Sarasvatī, by your grace I have become victorious in so many places. And what is this, that I am defeated by a boy who is a grammar student?" So he began to pray, and mother Sarasvatī informed her (him) that "He is God, my husband. So you speak means I speak. So how can I defeat my husband? That is not..." (knock at door) Come on. Come on. (someone enters) Yes, come. Yes. You can put there. (someone offers obeisances) Put there. All right. Put there. That's all. Very good. So then he further did not attempt to talk with Him. He went away, and the mother Sarasvatī advised him that "You surrender unto Him. That will be your nice role. Yes." So later on, he became a great devotee of Lord Caitanya, Keśava Kāśmīrī.