Prabhupāda: You have heard something about our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement?
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: I know something in general, yes. Perhaps you would tell me more.
Prabhupāda: It is based on Bhagavad-gītā.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You have read Bhagavad-gītā, I think.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: So primarily, it is based on Bhagavad-gītā, and then it is being explained from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā is the preliminary study of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: So we get ideas from Bhagavad-gītā how God consciousness can make the human society happy.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: The aim of human society should be God realization. That is the distinction between an animal and a human being.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So Bhagavad-gītā recommends that the whole society should be divided into four divisions: the brāhmaṇa, or the most intellectual persons; the kṣatriyas, the administrators; the vaiśyas, the mercantile agriculturists; and the śūdras, ordinary men, laborer or worker. Because this material world is conducted by three modes of nature, goodness, passion and ignorance. So according to the quality of the person, he should be listed in different categories. And it is the duty of the state to see that all these categories, divisions, they are working nicely.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Then, by God's arrangement, by nature's arrangement, all the necessities of the living entities, they will be supplied. They will be free from all anxieties, diseases. This was practically demonstrated during the reign of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. I, I wish to quote some passages from . . . during the reign of . . .
Pradyumna: Start with number one?
- śaunaka uvāca
- hatvā svariktha-spṛdha ātatāyino
- yudhiṣṭhiro dharma-bhṛtāṁ variṣṭhaḥ
- sahānujaiḥ pratyavaruddha-bhojanaḥ
- kathaṁ pravṛttaḥ kim akāraṣīt tataḥ
- (SB 1.10.1)
Prabhupāda: Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, after the Battle of Kurukṣetra, all the five brothers, they were almost fasting as, what is called, atonement for so many people killed for their sake. Then, under the instruction of elderly persons, Bhīṣma and Kṛṣṇa, he accepted the ruling power, governmental, and during his time . . .
(aside) You read that, kāmaṁ vavarṣa . . .
Pradyumna: It says:
- kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ
- sarva-kāma-dughā mahī
- siṣicuḥ sma vrajān gāvaḥ
- payasodhasvatīr mudā
- (SB 1.10.4)
Prabhupāda: Translation.
Pradyumna: Translation: "During the reign of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, the clouds showered all the water that people needed, and the earth produced all the necessities of man in profusion. Due to its fatty milk bag and cheerful attitude, the cow used to moisten the grazing ground with milk."
Prabhupāda: This was the position of the kingdom, that the cows felt secure. At the present moment, the cows are very unhappy. I have seen. They are almost crying. Because they can understand that, "After some time, we'll be killed."
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: They can understand that. So during Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's time, the cows were happy, and because they were happy, they were producing so much milk that when they were on the pasturing ground, the pasturing ground became moist with milk. Milk was dropping, so much milk supply. And kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4): there was regular rainfall and ample production of food grains, other things also. Just like jewelries, they are also produced by the rainfall and certain constellation of the star. That we understand from the astrological books.