Prabhupāda: ...civilization and other civilization.
Dr. Patel: Sir, let us first describe what is civilization.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Dr. Patel: Let us, I mean, think about what is first civilization.
Prabhupāda: Civilization means advance from animal life.
Dr. Patel: That is the difference between other civilizations and Vedic civilization.
Prabhupāda: Huh? So what is that difference, that I am asking.
Dr. Patel: You are advanced from animal life to a higher life, spiritual life. That is Vedic civilization.
Prabhupāda: That is I am asking. Civilization means not animal. Man, human being, must not be animal. This is the basic principle of civilization.
Dr. Patel: Primary all are animals. They have to advance from animal life to further up. That is the civilization as you say.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that I say. So not to remain animal.
Dr. Patel: Yes, not to have status quo.
Prabhupāda: Still it is going on. The junglis, they are not called civilized. They are as good as animals. In India we say jungli he, jungli. And others say uncivilized. So Aryan, Aryan means the most civilized group.
Dr. Patel: But presently, sir, the Aryan race are spread the world over.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Dr. Patel: Right from... Aryans are spread the world over right from South America to...
Prabhupāda: They were, they were belonging to the Aryan family. The Europeans, they were also Aryan family, and Indians, the Arabians, Persians, they were all Aryan family. And the Americans they also migrated from Europe. They are also Aryans. But that is familywise. But actually Aryan means one who is advanced in civilization. That is Aryan. Therefore when Kṛṣṇa chastised Arjuna, He addressed him, "non-Aryan." "You are not talking like Aryan." Anārya juṣṭam. "You are talking like non-Aryan." (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So Aryan means advanced. The first-class civilized men are the Aryans. So that standard of Aryan civilization is to understand God, Viṣṇu, and go back to. This is perfectional. Yato vā imani (indistinct) bhūtāni jayante. To understand it. And again return back to Him. The modern civilization, they are completely unaware of God, neither they know it that going back to home, back to Godhead, is perfection of civilization. This is the defect.
Dr. Patel: They say, sir, that the Aryan civilization, cradle of Aryan civilization near the North Pole, is somewhere in Russia. From there they started transmigrating. People went to Europe, from there to America, then south down to Iran, and then to India and all that. When they have such extreme cold they were able to civilize themselves to that extent.
Prabhupāda: Hm? We don't say.
Dr. Patel: The Eskimos are not able to do it.
Prabhupāda: No. Civilization means they must live in a nice place like India. That is civilization. The America in those days, they were neglecting. Nobody was living there. Gradually they advanced. Otherwise these tracts of land were rejected.
Dr. Patel: Hm?
Prabhupāda: These tracts of land, North America, that was rejected by the Aryans. They knew it.
Dr. Patel: They say the Mexico was known.
Prabhupāda: Mexico, they are less civilized. They are not Aryans. They are not Aryans.
Dr. Patel: That is patala bhumī.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Patala bhumī means just opposite the eastern hemisphere.
Yaśomatī-nandana: Just opposite the?
Prabhupāda: Eastern hemisphere.
Dr. Patel: But they had, sir, a very big Inca civilization in southern part of the American, I mean, continent, South America, that had been ransacked by these fellows, Spaniards. (break)
Yaśomatī-nandana: ...that Rāvaṇa's brother, Mahirāvaṇa, was in...
Prabhupāda: Brazil.
Yaśomatī-nandana: Brazil?
Prabhupāda: Yes. From the description it appears.
Dr. Patel: They could have gone via the Berings, on other side of...
Prabhupāda: By Suranga.(?)
Dr. Patel: Bering, Bering, just near on the eastern end of Russia.
Prabhupāda: Underground.
Dr. Patel: There is just next, I mean, Alaska and Bering, opposite each other. They could have gone by that place to American continent in past.
Devotee: That's what the scientists say. They are saying that they migrated by the northern way.
Dr. Patel: Yes. That is the only way. Otherwise seas are very big waves. The small crafts could not travel on that. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...proposition is not migrating. That is due to increase of population. The civilization means the culture. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Dr. Patel: (break) ...really spread toward the east in Indonesia and Indochina, all those places, which were again overtaken by Islam later on.
Prabhupāda: Islam is also...
Dr. Patel: History, it has spread. Even Bali Islands today are practicing Hinduism.
Brahmānanda: Aryan means change in consciousness to God consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: This means all over the world there can be an Aryan culture.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is right.
Dr. Patel: Today the world is dominated by Aryans, all over practically. Except in Central Africa.
Prabhupāda: Today the whole world is dominated by demons.
Dr. Patel: Today. The Aryans have become demons.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That... Anyone can become demon. A demon can become Aryan, and Aryan can become demon by culture. That is one...
Dr. Patel: Yes, yes. A brāhmaṇa can be generated to Rāvaṇa state.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the Aryan culture.
- yasya hi yad lakṣanaṁ
- proktaṁ varṇābhivyañjakam
- yady anyātrāpi dṛṣyeta
- tat tenaiva vinirdiṣet
- (SB 7.11.35)
That who is Aryan? These are the symptoms of Aryan. If the symptoms are found in Mexico, they are Aryan. That is verdict of Nārada. Yady anyātrāpi dṛṣyeta tat tenaiva vinirdiṣet (SB 7.11.35). We are doing that. They are coming from mleccha family, but they have practiced to become brāhmaṇa, they are brāhmaṇa. This is Aryan culture.
Dr. Patel: But they are Aryans originally.
Prabhupāda: No, no. This you are calculating from the skin.
Dr. Patel: No, no skin. From the blood group. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Blood or skin, the same thing. The same thing. The same thing.
Dr. Patel: All the Aryans have got B blood group in majority of them.
Prabhupāda: Skin comes from the blood. You know better than..., medical practitioner.
Dr. Patel: Skin is nourished by blood. It comes from something else.
Prabhupāda: So that is not the way. When there is symptoms... The symptom is... First symptom is that he must know that he is not body, and he must know what is God. Then it is Aryan civilization.