Prabhupāda: So how nature is working, he does not know. Then his knowledge is imperfect. Nature is working how, that we know. That is very sober understanding. We say that nature is working under the superintendence of Kṛṣṇa. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). Nature . . . we see nature. Generally we have got idea of the material nature, that the sun is one of the part and parcel of nature's working. The moon is also, the seasonal changes. So many things, nature is working very systematically. The summer season will appear exactly in the month of June and July. The fall begins in September every year. One can foretell that, "Next September this will happen," because nature's routine is very fixed up. So this systematic work of nature, how it is possible if there is no supervision?
Gurukṛpā: What they do is they just take it for granted, because it's happening so regularly.
Prabhupāda: So that means you have to accept it—there is superior administration. You may not know what is that administration, but you have to accept it. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says: "Under My supervision." Here those who are in the gross ignorance, not intelligent, they can suggest that there is some brain, just like Professor Einstein used to say. But he has no knowledge who is that brain, and we have that knowledge, who is that brain. That brain is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore our knowledge is perfect. They can simply suggest that, "There is a brain," but we can say: "Here is the brain." Then it is . . . if one knows whose brain it is, that is perfect knowledge.
Gurukṛpā: But they have no faith. That's the only difficulty.
Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. You accept some brain. But if somebody comes who is accepted as the brain, they have no faith. That means rascal. Nārada says: "Here is the brain." Brahmā says: "Here is the brain." Śiva says: "Here is the brain." Then ācāryas, Vyāsadeva, says: "Here is the brain." Then modern ācāryas, they say, "Here is the brain." Then why don't you accept? You are so rascal? Just like a person is going to London. So if he says: "I have no faith that this Quantas will carry me to London," then how he will be convinced? How he'll be? If he says that, "I have no faith in this Quantas company, that it will carry me to London," and if he does not purchase the ticket—he has no faith—then who will be loser? The Quantas company will be loser or he will be loser? Hmm?
Gurukṛpā: He's the loser.
Prabhupāda: The rascal who says . . . you can say that, that Quantas will carry him to London. You can say that. But if on account of his wrong faith if he does not purchase the ticket, then who will be loser? The Quantas will be loser or he will be loser? If you have no faith, then you are loser. You remain. Rot in this place. Do not try to go to London. What do you think? Eh?
Indian man (1): The traveler is the loser.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Gurukṛpā: The traveler is the loser.
Prabhupāda: Yes, traveler is the loser. If you have no faith, then loser. You are loser. You will never understand. Therefore śāstra says, mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Big, big stalwart ācāryas, mahājanas, they are accepting; therefore we accept. That is sense. And if you sit down, "No, no, I have no faith," you'll sit down and remain a rascal, that's all. Ādau śraddhā. Therefore faith is the first thing. Ādau śraddhā. If he has got intelligence, he'll see: "So many big, big . . . Lord Brahmā accepts. Lord Śiva accepts. Vyāsadeva accepts. Nārada accepts. The ācāryas accept. So am I more than them? No. I will accept." And that is perfection of . . . mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). And if still you remain faithless, then you are rascal. Same example can be . . . Qantas. So many hundreds are purchasing ticket. They have also never seen London, but on faith they're purchasing ticket. So you have no faith, you don't purchase—therefore remain here. Without faith you cannot begin to work. The same example, you have gone to a barber shop. He is shaving, and people blindly closing eyes, and he has got a razor. He can immediately cut. But why do you do this? Because you have faith that, "These people are professional barbers. They are shaving so many other people. They will not kill me. All right. Go on." This is faith. And if you have no faith, then you will never have clean shaven. You go away.
So beginning is faith, but faith should not be blind. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). You have to take faith from great personalities. That is faith. Just like you American boys and girls, you began with faith. Without faith nothing can be . . . ādau śraddhā. Just like people come, and they get some faith that, "So many people are following Swāmījī." So he associates for some time, then he offers himself for initiation. This is the way. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā (CC Madhya 23.14). And bhajana-kriyā, if he agrees with spiritual master and takes his word, then anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. Spiritual master says: "You should not do this," and if he follows, then automatically his unnecessary burden is cleansed. This is the way. But faith is the beginning. And that is quite natural. Faith means by seeing others, respectable persons, following, "And why not I shall follow?" That is faith. That is not also blind. You can see that so many others are doing, "So why not I myself?"
Gurukṛpā: This faith in the mundane religions, that cannot be called real faith?
Prabhupāda: No, that is faith, but because one is not intelligent, he takes irreligion as religion. He does not . . . he should be also very intelligent, faithful and intelligent. Not blind faith. He must be faithful, and intelligence . . . he must know what is actually religion. So therefore sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83). Associate with sādhus means those who are actually on the platform. So if he associates with the sādhu—the sādhus accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead—he will get the understanding that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. Then his faith becomes fixed up in Kṛṣṇa. This is the way.
Gurukṛpā: So what is the exact meaning of that verse, śraddhā-śabde? That verse . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes, śraddhā. That faith increase, and when it is increased so much that he fully understands, "By worshiping Kṛṣṇa, everything is done," that is first-class faith. Śraddhā-śabde viśvāsa kahe sudṛḍha niścaya (CC Madhya 22.62). If he becomes fixed up, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality," that is first class, means fulfillment of faith. In the beginning it might be doubtful, neophyte. But when that is . . . that faith is fixed up, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality," that is the fulfillment of faith. Faith also there are different stages, improvement. Devotional service means different grades of faith. Today I am in one stage of faith, next day another stage, next day another stage, next day another stage. And when you come to the stage that vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), oh, that is final. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That takes time. And quickly also, if one is fortunate. If one is intelligent—"The śāstra says: 'Vāsudeva is everything,' so why not take Vāsudeva as everything?"—then he gains the result immediately. And if he thinks, "All right, let me see for some time," so he may waste his time, but the point is the same. Point is the same, but he has not developed his faith to such extent. He'll have to wait. And intelligent person, he says: "Why shall I wait? Let me take finally vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). That business is finished." Sa mahātmā. Therefore it is said, sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ.