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BG 02.04 katham bhismam aham sankhye... cited

Expressions researched:
"dronam ca madhusudana" |"isubhih pratiyotsyami" |"katham bhismam aham sankhye" |"pujarhav ari-sudana"

Bhagavad-gita As It Is

BG Chapters 1 - 6

BG 2.4, Translation and Purport:

Arjuna said: O killer of enemies, O killer of Madhu, how can I counterattack with arrows in battle men like Bhīṣma and Droṇa, who are worthy of my worship?

Respectable superiors like Bhīṣma the grandfather and Droṇācārya the teacher are always worshipable. Even if they attack, they should not be counterattacked. It is general etiquette that superiors are not to be offered even a verbal fight. Even if they are sometimes harsh in behavior, they should not be harshly treated. Then, how is it possible for Arjuna to counterattack them? Would Kṛṣṇa ever attack His own grandfather, Ugrasena, or His teacher, Sāndīpani Muni? These were some of the arguments offered by Arjuna to Kṛṣṇa.

Lectures

Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures

Lecture on BG 2.1-5 -- Germany, June 16, 1974:

Prabhupāda: Next verse.

Satsvarūpa:

arjuna uvāca
kathaṁ bhīṣmam ahaṁ saṅkhye
droṇaṁ ca madhusūdana
iṣubhiḥ pratiyotsyāmi
pūjārhāv arisūdana
(BG 2.4)

(repeats)

Prabhupāda: Next verse also.

Satsvarūpa:

gurūn ahatvā hi mahānubhāvān
śreyo bhoktuṁ bhaikṣyam apīha loke
hatvārtha-kāmāṁs tu gurūn ihaiva
bhuñjīya bhogān rudhira-pradigdhān
(BG 2.5)

Prabhupāda: Synonyms? No. Everyone goes to bring that flask, and everyone is lost.

Satsvarūpa: Here it is.

Prabhupāda: (to translator who translates throughout:) In German language you can just translate this śloka he has ut...

So this was a discussion between Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra. So the subject of discussion was that although the battle was declared, Arjuna, when he actually found that "On the other side there are my relatives," how he could slay them? Kṛṣṇa advised that "Everyone must execute his prescribed duty without consideration of any personal loss or gain." According to Vedic civilization, there are four divisions of the society. Everywhere the same divisions are there all over the world. This is very natural. Just like we can study from our own body, there is head, there is arm, there is belly, and there is leg, similarly, in the society there must be a class of men who should be considered as brain, another class of men should be there who will protect the society from danger, another class of men will be expert in producing food grains and give protection to the cows and make trade, so. And the rest class of men, namely who cannot work as brain neither can work as protector from danger, nor they can produce food grains or give protection to the cows, they are called śūdras—as you cannot avoid, to make your body complete, the brain department, the arms department, the belly department and the walking or working department.

Lecture on BG 2.1-10 and Talk -- Los Angeles, November 25, 1968:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Arjuna said: O killer of Madhu, Kṛṣṇa, how can I counterattack with arrows in battle personalities like Bhīṣma and Droṇa, who are worthy of my worship (BG 2.4)?"

Prabhupāda: Of course, all explanation are not there. Here, these words, Kṛṣṇa addressed Arjuna, "chastiser of enemies." And Arjuna addresses Kṛṣṇa, "Madhusūdana," or the killer of the demon Madhu. "Yes, You are addressing me as chastiser of enemy, but do You think my grandfather, my teacher, they are my enemies? You killed demon Madhu, therefore Your name is Madhusūdana, but You are asking me to kill my grandfather and teacher." That is the hint. "It is all right that Your name is Madhusūdana. You killed one demon whose name was Madhu, but You are asking me, Bhīṣmasūdana? Bhīṣma is my grandfather. And Droṇasūdana?" Sūdana means killer. "So how can I be that?" That is the answer.

Lecture on BG 2.1-11 -- Johannesburg, October 17, 1975:

Parantapa means one who gives trouble to the enemies. This is the material world. A kṣatriya cannot behave like a brāhmaṇa, to excuse. Brāhmaṇa business is to excuse. Kṣamā-rūpa-tapasvinaḥ. Those who are tapasvī, they can excuse, but those who are in the governmental post, to make justice, there is no question of excuse. Life for life. "You have killed one man; you must be killed." This is justice. A brāhmaṇa, he may excuse, "All right, you have killed my man. Never mind. I excuse you." That is a brāhmaṇa's business. But a kṣatriya, the government, the ruling power, he cannot do so. It is his mercy. It is the government's mercy when a murderer is hanged. That is the injunction in the Manu-saṁhitā. "So parantapa, you are kṣatriya. Your business is to punish the unjust." Kṣudraṁ hṛdaya-daurbalyam: "For a kṣatriya this kind of poor-heartedness, that 'I shall not fight...' Give it up. Don't indulge in such thing."

Then Arjuna replied,

kathaṁ bhīṣmam ahaṁ saṅkhye
droṇaṁ ca madhusūdana
iṣubhiḥ pratiyotsyāmi
pūjārhāv arisūdana
(BG 2.4)

He is addressing Kṛṣṇa as arisūdana, the killer of the enemies. He says, "But in my case, I have to fight with Bhīṣma, Droṇācārya. They are my well-wisher, and how can I kill them? It is my duty to offer my respect, touching their feet, and You are enticing me to pierce their body with arrow? So, of course, You have killed so many enemies, but You have killed enemies. Why You are inducing me to kill my grandfather and my teacher?" Of course, Arjuna, also intelligent. He replied that "You cannot accuse me as anārya. This is the consideration. Therefore I am hesitating to fight."

Lecture on BG 2.2-6 -- Ahmedabad, December 11, 1972:

So in Bhāgavata you'll find everything. Politics, sociology, religion, culture, philosophy—everything you will find. Vidyā bhāgavata vadniḥ.(?) All kinds of cultural and educational instruction are there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So

klaibyaṁ mā sma gamaḥ pārtha
naitat tvayy upapadyate
kṣudraṁ hṛdaya-daurbalyaṁ
tyaktvottiṣṭha parantapa
(BG 2.3)

"Give up this cowardice habit. You get up and prepare for your fight. This is kṣatriya's business. You should not go behind." Arjuna uvāca. "Arjuna replied."

kathaṁ bhīṣmam ahaṁ saṅkhye
droṇaṁ ca madhusūdana
iṣubhiḥ pratiyotsyāmi
pūjārhāv arisūdana
(BG 2.4)

Now Kṛṣṇa was encouraging to fight; Arjuna was also very intelligently replying. He addressed Kṛṣṇa as Madhusūdana, Arisūdana. Madhusūdana means "the killer of Madhu demon" or "the killer or enemy." So his purpose is that "I have to kill Bhīṣmadeva, who is my so kind grandfather, and I have to kill Droṇācārya, who is my teacher, from whom I have learned this military art. So You have killed the demons and Your enemy, and why You are inducing me to kill my guru and my grandfather?" This is his argument. Kathaṁ bhīṣmam ahaṁ saṅkhye droṇaṁ ca madhusūdana, iṣubhiḥ pratiyotsyāmi: (BG 2.4) "They, my grandfather, my teacher, may chastise me, but how I can pierce with arrows their body?"

So this is the problem: duty. Arjuna was forgetting duty. And Kṛṣṇa was inducing him: "Never mind. According to kṣatriya rules and regulation, even the opposite party is your own son, you should not hesitate to kill him. This is kṣatriya's business." If the opposite party is your own son, but when there is fight, there must be decided: one party must be killed. This is kṣatriya's business. So he says, gurūn ahatvā hi mahānubhāvān (BG 2.5). "These guru, this Droṇācārya and Bhīṣma, they are not ordinary men." Mahānubhāvān. Bhīṣma, everyone knows. Bhīṣma is one of the authorities, authorities of religious principle. There are twelve authorities.

Lecture on BG 2.4-5 -- London, August 5, 1973:

Pradyumna (leads chanting, etc.):

arjuna uvāca
kathaṁ bhīṣmam aham saṅkhye
droṇaṁ ca madhusūdana
iṣubhiḥ pratiyotsyāmi
pūjārhāv ari-sūdana
(BG 2.4)
gurūn ahatvā hi mahānubhāvān
śreyo bhoktuṁ bhaikṣyam apīha loke
hatvārtha-kāmāṁs tu gurūn ihaiva
bhuñjīya bhogān rudhira-pradigdhān
(BG 2.5)

Translation: "Arjuna said: O killer of Madhu (Kṛṣṇa), how can I counterattack with arrows in battle men like Bhīṣma and Droṇa, who are worthy of my worship? It is better to live in this world by begging than to live at the cost of the lives of great souls who are my teachers. Even though they are avaricious, they are nonetheless superiors. If they are killed, our spoils will be tainted with blood."

Prabhupāda: So the first problem was for Arjuna how to kill the kinsmen, family men. Now, when he was chastised by Kṛṣṇa as a friend that "Why you are so weak? Don't be weak. This is sentiment. This kind of compassion is sentiment. Uttiṣṭha. You better get up and fight." If I do not want to do something, I can offer so many pleas. You see. So next he is presenting gurūn: "All right, Kṛṣṇa, you are talking about my kinsmen. I accept that it is my weakness. But how do You advise me to kill my guru? Droṇācārya is my guru. And Bhīṣmadeva is also my guru. So do you want me to kill my guru? Gurūn hi hatvā. And not only ordinary guru. This is not that they are ordinary men. Mahānubhāvān. Bhīṣma is a great devotee, and similarly, Droṇācārya also, a great personality. Mahānubhāvān. So kathaṁ bhīṣmam ahaṁ saṅkhye droṇaṁ ca madhusūdana (BG 2.4). "They are two great personalities. They are not only my gurus, but they are great personalities." And Kṛṣṇa is addressed "Madhusūdana." Madhusūdana means... Madhu was Kṛṣṇa's enemy, a demon. So He killed. So "You are Madhusūdana, You are killer of Your enemies. Can You give me any evidence that You have killed Your guru? So why You are asking me?" This is the purport. Iṣubhiḥ pratiyotsyāmi pūjārhāv ari-sūdana. Again Ari-sūdana. Ari means enemy. Madhusūdana, particularly "the killer of the Madhu demon." And next is Arisudana. Ari means enemy. So Kṛṣṇa has killed so many demons, ari, who came to fight with Him as enemy. Therefore His name is Arisudana.

So Kṛṣṇa has got enemies also, what to speak of ourself. This material world is so made, that you must have some enemies. Matsaratā. Matsaratā means enviousness, jealousy. This material world is like that. So there are jealous enemies of God also. They are called demons. Ordinary jealousy or enemy, that is natural. But even to God. Just like yesterday night, evening, somebody came to see me. He was arguing that "Why Kṛṣṇa should be accepted as God?" That was his argument. So Kṛṣṇa has enemies. Therefore Kṛṣṇa... Not only He, but everyone who is in the material world is enemy of Kṛṣṇa. Everyone. Because they want to be competitor of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says that bhoktāram: "I am the supreme enjoyer." Sarva-loka-maheśvaram: (BG 5.29) "I am the Supreme proprietor." And the Vedas also confirm, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). "Everything is the property of the Supreme Lord." Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. These are Vedic injunctions. Yato vā imāni bhūtāni jāyante: "From whom everything has come." Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). These are Vedic versions. But still, we, because we are enemies, "No, why Kṛṣṇa shall be the proprietor? I am the proprietor. Why Kṛṣṇa shall be God only. I have got another God. Here is another God."

Page Title:BG 02.04 katham bhismam aham sankhye... cited
Compiler:Visnu Murti
Created:10 of Apr, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=1, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=5, Con=0, Let=0
No. of Quotes:6