Prabhupāda: I am conducting all these temples with the help of these foreigners. There, there is no Indian.
Guest: That's what will come in the way.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: That I've been telling Tamāla Kṛṣṇa also, that you should have some Indians.
Prabhupāda: No, should have, but no Indians are coming.
Guest: No, but then you should appoint somebody, you know.
Prabhupāda: No, we cannot appoint. That is not. That is not possible. We cannot appoint. That is useless. Paid men is useless.
Guest: Paid... Appointed does not mean that you pay them. Appointing can be honorary also. I don't say that you pay them.
Prabhupāda: So who is honorary coming. They are also honorary, but who is dedicating...
Guest: So you should have in India those people...
Prabhupāda: "I should have" means you, if you become "should have." Otherwise...
Guest: I don't mind becoming, or you can have somebody...
Prabhupāda: Nobody is taking seriously, Indian. So many years we are here. How many Indian-educated youths are coming? They are not interested.
Guest: Because in the court of law you require a person who should be Indian citizen, and he should have some...
Prabhupāda: Then that... No, Indian citizen we have got. Just like here. He is Indian man. Or to the... But in proportion, they are not even one percent. That is the difficulty. And if the government likes that if they make it without... Just like I was refused entrance in Africa, Nairobi. So if the government says that... There, they understand that these Americans making this satyagrama (?), or as you have proposed, then immediately, within twenty-four hours, they will be deported. Then I do not know who will manage my, so many establishment. Therefore if the Hindus and the Vaiṣṇavas, they combine together that "This is an important proposal," they go to the court, they give their signature, they come here, that will be nice. It may be long time. That doesn't matter. But that will be solid thing. And if the government becomes, "Oh, these Americans are making this propaganda," at any moment they can ask that "Within twenty-four hours you get out."
Guest: Yes, they can throw them out. No, my intention was not that this movement should be by foreigners because that will be against them. What I was meaning to. They should be...
Prabhupāda: That should be taken. Therefore I say, hold meeting, and the Hindus, the Vaiṣṇavas, they should take action. Not Americans. There may be Americans, but they'll...
Guest: No, what I say that Americans may organize it, but the participants should be Indians.
Prabhupāda: No, organize... They have actually come to me. They were attracted with Kṛṣṇa conscious philosophy. Therefore they have come to me. They did not expect that Indian government, although the money has been paid by them, and still, the Indian government is against this movement. They were not prepared for all these things. Unfortunately, these things are happening in India. We had no such difficulty in any part. Only the less intelligent class, they are... Just like in Africa, they are "junglese."
Guest: Uncivilized.
Prabhupāda: Uncivilized. A similar thing is happening in India where the civilization is supposed to be so... And actually it is so, but they have become so degraded that a responsible officer in the government, he is saying that "Bhajana is nuisance." You see. He has no knowledge what, how much valuable, spiritually valuable, bhajana is. In the Bhagavad-gītā... Gandhi accepted Bhagavad-gītā. It is said, catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛti... Gandhi was chanting in temple: Raghupati rāghava. So what they are following? Gandhi was against drinking and intoxication. Now they're introducing. So this is the position of the government. Therefore I suggest that according to the word, so far traffic, we are diverting the ways this way. And let people come here, join with bhajana, take prasādam, and they sign, "Yes, there must be a temple here." Let this. And make propaganda that people may come here, and... I am present here. I will speak. The same thing, as it is going on, kīrtana and speaking from Bhagavad-gītā. And after they are convinced, let them sign, "Yes, there must be a temple here." In this way, gather public opinion, one point, that bhajana is not nuisance, essential, we want it, and the other thing, we are making gate in and out to get... Submit a plan like that, that this is... There will be no... That may be a small road, lane, but here is a big road. And purchase that land in front and make a gate. Call a good architects, make a nice gate and road. Take this proposition. Our business is there. If we invite people, "Come..." Even without temple, if it is go on like that, people may come and take prasādam, and they give their consent, "Yes, it is nice," that is sufficient. Even there is no temple. Then, if such way, public opinion's created, and the sanction is there, immediately there will be temple. It may take some time. It doesn't matter. So far satyagraha (?) is concerned, it will be useless. Hungry people, they are making satyagraha, and they are replied with fire, killing them. In Patna it has become so.
Guest: Yes, Rajasthan.
Prabhupāda: Rajasthan. So the government is so rogue that hungry men they have come and we are firing. And the... Your sva-rāja was obtained by nonviolence. This is the result. Actually, you cannot expect any justice from this government.
Guest: One has to snatch the justice from them.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: Not by begging or mercy. Even the Gujarat, the people people which they have done, how they have got this liberty or whatever it is, is all by fighting, by firing back to government. Otherwise the government has the majority of the assembly. Congress Party (indistinct). How they will resolve it? It is the first time there is a majority of the members of assembly could be resolved because people do not want it. It's unconstitutional, but yet, (indistinct) constitutional method has been adopted because they...
Prabhupāda: And they have smashed the speaking.
Guest: Yes.
Yaśomatīnandana: The Hindustan people lied doing that.
Guest: Nothing lied. They will say a lie is nothing for the sake of liberty.
Prabhupāda: What is that liberty? Therefore we have to educate public that the...
Guest: And another thing, regarding the propaganda, as you said rightfully, that that propaganda you have to make in the city and not in the Juhu area. Because here...
Prabhupāda: No, no, in the city. I have told you. A big, big hall.
Guest: Yes. A big halls or a pandal as we had held two years back.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Guest: I don't know how you have got the sanction.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes.
Guest: And there the people can come in the thousands and...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that I have already said.
Guest: ...on the neighboring stand, we should raise...
Prabhupāda: No, we request them that "You have taken so many ways, but your problems are not... Why not take this simple problem? Come with us, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and try to understand little, one śloka from Bhagavad-gītā. What is the...? You have no loss. But if you do it, we assure you the solution is there, all solution." Let us make this propaganda. Never mind, they do not sanction forever. It doesn't matter. But this propaganda wanted. What is that temple? Temple, there are many thousands.
Guest: Last year or two years back, we had lots of (indistinct) central playground (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Make that. And give them prasādam. Let them have saṅkīrtana. Here, that meeting will be done here. In this way make propaganda. It doesn't matter it will be belated. It doesn't matter. It will be a... Better late than never. But this propaganda should be done. (break) Now, now, better purchase hundred chairs. So around the temple room place hundred chairs so that many people can stand. They will sit comfortable without, with the, with their shoes. So make some attraction, people may come. And whoever comes, give them prasādam. Whatever you can. "Please take prasādam." Give him plate. Make this way.
Guest: What I was saying apart from all that... In my personal capacity, not as a lawyer, as a life member,... But as a life member, I can help on the police commissioner also.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest: In writing, I can help on the police commissioner.
Prabhupāda: Yes, let him come.
Guest: Whatever I have written it, giving my personal shape, I can write him and I can discuss the problem with him as a life member of our (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: No, not as our lawyer.
Guest: That... No, I say...
Prabhupāda: On your personal capacity. Yes.
Guest: I say...
Prabhupāda: Yes, as a public man, as a person, you can do that.
Guest: "As a life member, I am suffering because of this reason that there is no construction of a temple, therefore I cannot develop spiritually."
Prabhupāda: No, you can go to other temples.
Guest: No, if I have got attraction for a particular temple, why I should be denied.
Prabhupāda: Then you are spiritually not improving.
Guest: I beg your pardon?
Prabhupāda: Then you are not spiritually improving.
Guest: No, but that is how they will give me reply, and I can tell them.
Prabhupāda: That is not very strong reason.
Guest: No, but what I say, they may be a strong, but I say I am stronger than them.
Prabhupāda: No, that they will understand that because you are one of them and this is the...
Guest: No, no. I...
Prabhupāda: ...that your idea means our idea, carried.
Guest: Not necessarily. (break)
Prabhupāda: Officially it is not. Officially it is not. But being the family member, this is the family opinion.
Guest: Certainly, it's my honest opinion.
Prabhupāda: But the thing is I want to do something solid.
Guest: No, but what I say is my...
Prabhupāda: Even if you write, they'll not take care very much.
Guest: No, but, uh, I am hopeful.
Prabhupāda: You are hopeful, but I am thinking in otherwise, that...
Guest: Unless they have got some...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest: From Delhi.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest: Unless there is an adverse report from Delhi.
Yaśomatīnandana: Delhi.
Guest: You see if there is any report from the Delhi, from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, against this movement, because being Americans...
Prabhupāda: No, they are against this movement, that I have got many proofs.
Guest: But if they will logically...
Prabhupāda: Logic, there is no logic.
Guest: No, but what I say. If they are appeased...
Prabhupāda: Argumentum baculam. Their logic is sword.
Guest: No, but what I say... The basic problem is that if the center is against, if the (indistinct) man, is against...
Prabhupāda: That I know that they are against.
Guest: If the (indistinct) men is against, therefore they are disclosing their weakness.
Prabhupāda: And indirectly, Indira Gandhi sometimes said that... Many politicians have said. In London, the high commissioner, he said, "Swamiji, your movement is so nice." He's a Maharastrian Pant. Pant. So... But we cannot do anything of this way.
Guest: No, but if the center is against, then my logic says...
Prabhupāda: Center is against.
Guest: If the center is against, then how they have given a permission Delhi?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest: Then how we have got a permission in Delhi?
Prabhupāda: What is that permission?
Guest: Temple permission building.
Yaśomatīnandana: We don't have... We haven't built a temple in Delhi.
Guest: We don't have a temple in Delhi.
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Guest: Then what about the permission in the Māyāpur?
Prabhupāda: Māyāpur, that doesn't require any permission.
Guest: What?
Prabhupāda: That doesn't require any permission. That is in the village.
Guest: And what about this Vṛndāvana.
Prabhupāda: That also, they gave permission with great difficulty.
Guest: Hyderabad?
Prabhupāda: Hyderabad, I do not know.
Yaśomatīnandana: Hyderabad is easier because the people are very much in favor.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And Vṛndāvana they gave it very late. After one year. Vṛndāvana. Because the government doesn't want further development of Vṛndāvana. They are neglecting the city in such a way that no gentleman will go there. The old city... Formerly, it was planned that "So many pilgrims come here. It should be nicely developed." But now they have given up. They have purposefully kept so nasty. You have seen the city?
Yaśomatīnandana: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: So nasty that nobody will go there.
Guest: But should we now take the help from the political parties such as Shiv Sena?
Prabhupāda: That is very good.
Guest: Because they were the, only these people, who have stopped the police, the municipal commissioner from breaking the temple.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: Breaking the temple.
Prabhupāda: But one thing is... My fear is that as soon as they know the American people are agitating this, they may ask, "You go."
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: And I have no Indians to manage these big, big temples. Neither they are trained up. Trained up. I have trained up these American boys. They are doing nicely. But they cannot. They have taken a brahmacārī dress, and they will come with pant. And they will argue, "Why? What is the wrong there? Why should I give up pant? Why shall I have tilaka? Why shall I give up smoking?" Why, why... They will put so many "whys" that my life will be spoiled. Because they have advanced. So many rascals swamis have told them, "Yes..."
Guest: But the same principle, as you say, that if we do anything, they may send our people out of India.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Guest: As you rightly say, that if we do anything, actively, then they may send your boys going out of India, foreigners. Americans.
Yaśomatīnandana: They will kick us.
Guest: "Yes. Throw them out." They will argue on that ground and they will say that "You are not required. You are nuisance," or whatever the reasons.
Prabhupāda: Any, no reason. No reason. No reason. "We don't want you."
Guest: Without finding any reason. But if that's so, then we may propagate, try to get another, then they'll again take the same action, because they'll know that we are trying to create the public opinion against the government. They can again take the same action of removing the boys.
Prabhupāda: No, same action, but that is our propaganda, preach.
Guest: Then on the propaganda also, the principle is same. Then they will remove them.
Prabhupāda: That we are already doing. We are holding meeting.