Brahmānanda: Yaśomatīnandana has a book, and he would like to read a few sentences from that book.
Prabhupāda: Which is that book?
Brahmānanda: Hm?
Prabhupāda: What is that book?
Brahmānanda: Well, we thought that we could play a game that Dr. Patel, he could identify who has written this book.
Prabhupāda: What is that book?
Dr. Patel: Please don't allow him to read. (laughter) Let us talk about Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Brahmānanda: This is Bhagavad-gītā.
Dr. Patel: You see, anything which is read out of context is no reading. You must read it reference to context. If you read some nonsense somebody must have spoken or written he's not all what he has written or spoken. So if Yaśomatīnandana reads that and Prabhupādajī talks something about the spirituality, no this moment... Because time is short and heart is long, and our heart is beating like muffled drums, so let us fulfill ourself before we die.
Prabhupāda: No, you have got your injection. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: That is not for me. I give only... (laughs) His wife was brought yesterday to me, Yaśodānandana, and she told me that she was operated in the stomach for some growth. "What sort of growth was that? Was it malignant?" And she's suffering. Why don't you send her back or get the reports from the American hospital, what operation was performed on her, and we'll get out? Or she'll suffer all the time. That is the story of injection. Now let us talk. Until you realize God, then you are spirit. Up to then, you are always...
Prabhupāda: "I am Indian." "I am American."
Dr. Patel: More important: "I am a human being and others are lower animals." That is the greatest abhimana.
Prabhupāda: No, that is also.
Dr. Patel: Abhimana.
Prabhupāda: That is also, what is called, false ego. Human being or animal, they are not different, because the body is made of the same ingredient. If you manufacture a dog like a dog, like a man, what is the difference? The ingredient is the same, earth.
Dr. Patel: Five bhūtas, pañca-bhūta.
Prabhupāda: Pañca-bhūta So where is the difference? A man who knows, he will see so many dolls made of earth. He knows they are all earth. Ekatvam anupaśyataḥ (Iso 7).
Dr. Patel:
- brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
- na śocati na kāṅkṣati
- samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
- mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
- (BG 18.54)
Some of it all, no?
Prabhupāda: First of all let me, let me understand. This bodily transformation does not make any difference. Either it is made like a dog or it is made like a man, it is made from the earth. So one who knows the ingredient, he does not make any difference. Because he knows the dog or the man made of the same ingredient. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. First of all the body. The bodily conscious even...
Dr. Patel: He has come.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: He has come.
Prabhupāda: The bodily consciousness is also material. That is also one. And the soul consciousness, spiritual, that is also one. That is ekatvam. So for a learned person there is no defect. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini, paṇḍitaḥ samaḥ (BG 5.18). This is the... So anyone who is under the bodily conception of life, either human beings or dogs, they are the same. But that upādhi amongst human being is stronger than the cats and dogs. The human being, being advanced in consciousness, they are making this nationalism. But it is nothing but dogism. Is it not? That's all. The so-called national people are sacrificing so many lives, so many politicians, Napoleon and these big, big leaders. But what is their business? Business is that doggish mentality: "I am this body." So it is very difficult to give up this doggish mentality that "I am this body." Very, very difficult.
Dr. Patel: That is ahaṅkāra.
Prabhupāda: False ahaṅkāra. Because he is not body, it is false ahaṅkāra. So śāstra therefore says, bhagavad-bhakti vihinasya jati japas tapaḥ kriya. A person who has not developed Kṛṣṇa consciousness, for him this advancement of nationality, big work, industry, so on, so on, so on, jati japas tapaḥ kriya... Kriya, these act...
Dr. Patel: Activities.
Prabhupāda: What are these? Apranasya hi dehasya mandanam loka-ranjanam. It has no value. But people are enamored by these things, "I belong to great nation. I am American. We have got so many industries. We have got so many cars." Attachment. So it is very difficult. Sarvo-padhi-vinirmuktam. One, after becoming completely freed from all these false designations, to become a devotee is very, very difficult. There is no education.
Dr. Patel: Sarva-bhavena, from all sides and from all degrees.
Prabhupāda: It is very difficult. So we are dealing with very, very difficult task. It is not very easy, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Naturally we have got attraction for God. That is spiritual kingdom. Just like Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvana means center is Kṛṣṇa. The elderly person like Nanda Mahārāja, Yaśoda, their friends, their..., they are also attracted to Kṛṣṇa. The gopīs are attracted to Kṛṣṇa, the cowherds boys, they are attracted to Kṛṣṇa. The cows, calves, animals and peacock—everyone is attracted to Kṛṣṇa. The water is attracted to Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana. And here in the material world nobody is attracted by Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: Who prevents them, sir? māyā.
Prabhupāda: No. He wanted this; therefore māyā is there.
Dr. Patel: So that their position may go on.
Prabhupāda: Police is not first. First you become a thief; then police is there, not that police comes and arrest you unnecessary. No. As soon as you become criminal, then police comes and arrest you. māyā comes next. If you give up your natural attraction for Kṛṣṇa, if you are attracted by this material enjoyment, then māyā is there. Again if you try to...
Dr. Patel: But material, all material, is made up of māyā.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Nothing is made by māyā. māyā is made by God.
Dr. Patel: And material is, nothing but the transformation of māyā, is it not?
Prabhupāda: No. No. māyā means something false. Nobody makes anything. Everything is made by... Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). Kṛṣṇa is the creator of everything. māyā is also created by Kṛṣṇa. So just like government creates police department. But police department is made for that person who violates the laws of God. The police department is creation of government. Similarly, māyā's business is to capture, arrest the criminal who has gone against God, capture him. Mūḍha janmani janmani (BG 16.20). Mam aprapyaiva. This is the arrangement. Nobody is independent. Everything. Therefore it is called sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. So māyā is also Brahman. māyā is also Brahman. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Why māyā is different from God? It is creation of God. Mama māyā, Kṛṣṇa says. Mama māyā. So how māyā can be... The difference is police cannot arrest the president. Now it has been proved in the law. The president, the prime minister, they cannot be interfered by the police or law. That is good judgment. If the head of the estate is also interfered by police, that does not look well. So this judgment is very nice. Therefore in English constitution the first word is "The king can do no wrong." You cannot accuse king of doing wrong. Whatever he does, it is all right.