Prabhupāda: Yes. That means he could not get any spiritual idea. Asad grahāt. Material existence means accepting something which will not exist—asat. Asato mā sad gamaya. The Vedic instruction is, "Do not remain in this material world. Make your progress . . ." (break) Asato mā sad gamaya. But people are so accustomed to materialistic way of life that they are reluctant. That is māyā, very strong. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14).
It is very, very difficult. Māyā tries to punish every conditioned soul, and as soon as there is some attempt to get out of the clutches of māyā, she becomes still strong, "Where you shall go, my dear son? You remain with me." Yaḥ devī sarva-bhūteṣu nidra-rūpiṇa sam . . . in the Caṇḍī. Yaḥ devī, he is situated, keeping the conditioned souls in dream. He is simply dreaming, "I'll be happy in this way, I'll be happy in that way." And that is mental concoction. He'll be never be happy. Kṛṣṇa said, moghāśā mogha-karmāṇo mogha-jñānā vicetasaḥ (BG 9.12), āsurīṁ bhāvam āśri . . . (BG 7.15). Because he has not recognized the Supreme Personality of Godhead, all his hopes and endeavors will be baffled. So even a person like Mahatma Gandhi, he became baffled.
Guest (1): Yes, that's right. He admitted also.
Prabhupāda: And what to speak of others. His ambition was Hindu-Muslim unity. So that was banned.
Guest (1): Total failure.
Prabhupāda: His ambition was nonviolent—he was killed by violence. So what to speak of others? A person so dedicated, so nice, but he followed the wrong path. Recently I had been to his Sevagram in Wardha. So there was no Kṛṣṇa worship, and he said that he is very fond of Bhagavad-gītā. But he understood Bhagavad-gītā in his own way.
Guest (1): (laughing) In a different way, I would say.
Prabhupāda: And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, as soon as you try to understand Bhagavad-gītā in your own way, it is finished.
Guest (1): Hopeless.
Prabhupāda: It is finished. Naṣṭa. Yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa (BG 4.2). So naṣṭa jeev, what is naṣṭa? What is the use of . . .?
Guest (1): It should be destroyed. No use to it.
Prabhupāda: Suppose if I supply you something which is spoiled, then what benefit you will derive? Therefore no benefit is derived by the people in general, either from Gandhi or Vinoba Bhave or Tilak, because it was naṣṭa.
Guest (1): Sir, how do you compare it with . . . this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement . . .
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is . . .
Guest (1): . . . for the common man, for the downtrodden, for the poor?
Prabhupāda: Yes, they can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and they will understand.
Guest (1): That should be some motivation . . .
Prabhupāda: Just like if you are hungry, if you get some real food, you'll understand. Example is these American, European boys. They are simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, and you see how they are advanced.
Guest (1): How come that in this country they . . .?
Prabhupāda: Immediately come. But you won't take.
Guest (1): I see.
Prabhupāda: That is your fault. You have manufactured your own way of life. Otherwise, Hare Kṛṣṇa is India's gift.
Guest (1): It's not much.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But you won't take it. He'll speak so many nonsense; he'll never speak Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is misfortune.
Guest (2): What are the aims of the Indian society? Although it's given birth to so much, it still doesn't take it as success. What is the weakness in the Indian society that they don't . . .
Prabhupāda: Because they have got bad leaders, the rascal leaders. Just like see. Mahatma Gandhi, he misled. But he did not know how to lead. And what to speak of others. They do not know. I saw this Vinoba Bhave, he does not know anything. He has become leader. I saw in his āśrama about one dozen women, they are reciting Bhagavad-gītā. That's all. And for the last forty years he's working on Bhagavad-gītā, and the result is some forty women is reciting Bhagavad-gītā. So this is the result. So what they will do? They do not know how to lead. And he has written one book on Bhagavad-gītā, but he has become a great leader. And that is also not according to Bhagavad-gītā. This is going on. This is going on.