Physics (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"physicist" |"physicist's" |"physicists" |"physics" |"physist"

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: ...above the illusion, above cheating, above imperfection. This is God.

Śyāmasundara: There's a central premise that everything is simultaneously one and different. Just like flowers—there are many flowers, roses, but within the flowers there is variety.

Mensa Member: But still it raises the danger of another (indistinct), it really does. This is a very (indistinct) you're trying to make but it's impossible to talk about physics in the language of chemistry. It's impossible, so when...

Śyāmasundara: So when he says there's a gradation, that we see gradation, that the soul is higher than the body, this is also (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Soul is higher than the body, mind and intelligence.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The astronomers and the cosmologists, they define the universe in three definitions. And according to their own..., they say the visible space, the universe, they say this is their laboratory for their research to find out the unlimited expanding universe. So this is their laboratory for their... So they call..., this is called observable universe, the universe that can be observed and perceived by instruments. Then another definition of universe they call unlimited. That includes the observable plus everything that is not observable. And the third aspect they call physical universe. That means this universe can be studied by physical laws, mathematics, physics. So they call these are physical universe. So based on these...

Prabhupāda: So how they can say beyond this universe there is no other?

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Physics has nothing to do with spirit. (break) ...manufacture the subtle(?) parts of motorcar, easily you can go. So this rascal thinking this is advancement, says, "I am killing the soul. The soul is going to become a dog next life after riding motorcar." That is written, and they have no knowledge. But because you have advanced from bullock cart to motorcar, this is.... So rascal they are. They have no knowledge what is advancement. What is the time?

Jayatīrtha: It's quarter to seven, thirteen minutes to seven. The advancement of material science really means to complicate the problems of life.

Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Gradually try to convince him and let him read our books.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We are in the same floor. He works on the physics side, I am in chemistry side, but we are in the same floor, fourth floor of the building. No, he is on the third floor. So Śrīla Prabhupāda is saying that prove the existence of Kṛṣṇa by the science of physics, your knowledge. So he asked me, how am I going to prove the existence of Kṛṣṇa by chemistry?

Prabhupāda: That requires your knowledge.

Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That requires your knowledge.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But he agreed the existence of supreme brain. We were talking about the talk between Einstein, Heisenberg, and some of the famous so-called physicists in nuclear field. So there was a conversation between Einstein and this Heisenberg, and Paul Durad(?), and (?), these are mostly (?) scientists, they are mostly Nobel Laureates. They were discussing, and without Einstein, these people they were talking, "Why Einstein is all the time talking about God?" Then this Heisenberg, he was not like Einstein. Einstein himself, he believed that there is a brain behind, supreme brain of God. And some of them, specifically this one, young Durad(?), he is also a scientist, he was very young, he was only twenty-five years old. So he said, "Einstein is all the time talking about God." This Durad(?) is completely opposite to this Einstein.

Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...how do you know that guru is qualified, spiritual master is qualified? Then I said everything is written in the śāstras, so we have to follow according to the injunctions written in the śāstras. So all the qualifications of a pure devotee, of a bona fide guru, is written there. Just like you are a professor of physics in the university. Before you came, you had some qualification, degree of doctors. And then there is a committee to decide you whether you are qualified for the post. So it is selected by a committee of members and then they interview and then they find out your qualifications. If they find that you are qualified for the post, so you are selected as a professor. It's like that in the spiritual field also. There are revealed scriptures and there everything is written what will be the qualification of a guru and then how to choose a bona fide one. So everything is written, you should follow the injunctions of the revealed scriptures accordingly.

Prabhupāda: Committee is his spiritual master, he orders that you do this.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: So as so far the differences, there is no difference, because just like this body: the body has got different parts—the fingers, the hands, the eyes, the legs, so many different—but the whole purpose is to serve the body. Either with the finger or eyes or hands or legs, the whole purpose is centered on the soul of the complete whole body. Similarly, Bhāgavata says that whatever you may—you may be scientist, you may be philosopher, you may be an engineer, you may be a poet, you may be sociologist, politician, whatever you may be-their purpose should be avicyutaḥ arthaḥ. Avicyutaḥ means infallible purpose. Avicyutaḥ arthaḥ kavibhih nirūpitaḥ. "It has been decided by great learned scholar," says "all of them should be engaged in glorifying the Supreme." Avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam. The scientists, from their angle of vision, should describe the glory of the Lord: how this biology is working by the manipulation of the Supreme Lord. Similarly chemists, physicists, engineers, politicians, there are different departments, but all of them should join together, congregation, and from their different scientific point, angle of vision, they should glorify the Supreme Lord.

Room Conversation -- September 1, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: All, all materialism?

Prabhupāda: Just dealing with earth, water, air, fire, sky. That's all.

Guest: And in this time, modern science, you know, physics, chemistry, mathematics; is this all materialism?

Prabhupāda: All materialism.

Guest: All materialism.

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is spiritual.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1973, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. By your knowledge. If you are scientist, you are chemist, through chemical challenge you try to glorify the Supreme Lord. If you are physicist, from physical point of view, try to explain. If you are scientist... Anyway, because ultimate... Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). Any knowledge, that is... You have to approve the Supreme. That is real perfect knowledge. And at the present moment men of knowledge they are rejecting. Because they cannot explain, they are rejecting. They do not bother.

Guest (1): Modern science has cleared the deck very much for religion. They are not so dogmatic as the old scientists used to be.

Prabhupāda: What do they say now?

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think he's a physicist now. I think he came here about one year before I came here.

Prabhupāda: So if he's in service, then he's śūdra.

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: He's śūdra, paricaryātmakaṁ karma śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). As soon as one accepts service of a master, immediately śūdra.

Yaśomatīnandana: True brāhmaṇas even didn't care for kings.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. You say that it is a combination of such and such chemicals... Just like these rascals say, "Life..." Now he said that "You take the chemicals. Can you produce?" He said, "That I cannot say." You see? Avoiding the issue. This was discussed in the meeting. What is that gentleman?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Professor Stanley Miller. He's from San Diego, physicist.

Prabhupāda: Miller. Yes, he has got Nobel Prize. And his theory is that from chemicals, life has begun. So he said in the meeting that "If I give you the chemicals, can you produce life?" He said, "That I cannot say." Just see. And he has got Nobel Prize. He has no pure idea, still he has received the Nobel Prize.

Morning Walk -- December 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (laughing) It is not like that, but we can say, wherever Kṛṣṇa topics are there, it is as good as Vaikuṇṭha or Vṛndāvana. (break) ...prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ. By association, bodhayantaḥ parasparam. These things are there in the Bhagavad-gītā. (break) ...enjoy and be satisfied in the association of devotees. (break) ...article on the subject of "Kṛṣṇa, the supreme scientist," and let us publish it. That article is very nice. If he writes such articles, the conclusion, if Kṛṣṇa, the supreme scientist, Kṛṣṇa, the supreme economist, Kṛṣṇa, the supreme philosopher, Kṛṣṇa, the supreme chemist, Kṛṣṇa—everything, the conclusion is Supreme, Kṛṣṇa—then his activity is fulfilled. He becomes successful. The conclusion should be Kṛṣṇa. That's it. Whatever he may be. He may be a musician, he may be artist, he may be physicist, he may be chemist, he may be scientist—whatever he may be, if he writes article on the subject matter and concludes that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, then preach, then he is successful. That's all. Just like you are theologian. You write theology and prove, "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord."

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 26, 1974, Tirupati:

Prabhupāda: All daughters, sons.

Indian man: Three sons, three daughters are married. This daughter is to be married. She is a doctorate. She has got M.Sc., Ph.D., in nuclear physics. She went to England for one year.

Prabhupāda: Where did you stay in England?

Daughter: Liverpool.

Prabhupāda: Liverpool. I think we have got our branch.

Daughter: Manchester, I have seen, Manchester.

Prabhupāda: Manchester you have seen? Oh. Manchester, Liverpool, and London... London we have got two.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: Yes. But actually that's a very interesting way of approaching the problem of spirituality, you see. We are learning that actually everything has some relationship with Kṛṣṇa, or God. So you are a physicist, if I have understood,...

Robert Gouiran: Yes.

Yogeśvara: ...a nuclear physicist. So you have a very highly specialized field of knowledge. So it would be valuable to see also what is the contact of nuclear physics with the...

Guru-gaurāṅga: Spiritual physics.

Prabhupāda: The spiritual physics is... (laughter)

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Guru-gaurāṅga: Spiritual physics.

Prabhupāda: The spiritual physics is... (laughter)

Robert Gouiran: Spiritual physics.

Prabhupāda: Yes, "spiritual physics" can be said.

Robert Gouiran: I should say that the word "science" is misleading. The word science is generally used by the opponent of science as a pejorative label. Because really, they don't know what science is. And they think that should be the enemy.

Yogeśvara: Let me relate the information little by little. He says "The word science is misleading. Generally the word science is used by people who are enemies of science to make it, to pinpoint it, that 'This is the enemy.' So they call it science, a general word."

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: So on the wrong platform you may go, go forward more and more, but it will be dismantled because it is wrong.

Yogeśvara: What is the... Is there a... What is the nuclear physicist's idea about the origins of creation?

Robert Gouiran: Well, nuclear physics...

Prabhupāda: They do not...

Robert Gouiran: Nuclear physics has nothing to do with the study of creation.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they have nothing.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Robert Gouiran: Nuclear physics has nothing to do with the study of creation.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they have nothing.

Robert Gouiran: Nuclear physics is just the study of the structure of matter.

Yogeśvara: The structure of matter?

Robert Gouiran: Yes. That's... How matter is done, as long as we could observe it. And how the matter is organized. And is it, is it possible to go in the deepest level where we could find the smallest particles. But nothing...

Prabhupāda: But so far nuclear weapon is concerned, so there is no much credit. Because it is a weapon for killing, death. Is it not? Not for that purpose?

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: But so far nuclear weapon is concerned, so there is no much credit. Because it is a weapon for killing, death. Is it not? Not for that purpose?

Robert Gouiran: No, no. Nuclear physics in itself is just a pure research of knowledge. But the manufacturing of weapons, that's not nuclear physics.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Robert Gouiran: That's just business.

Prabhupāda: What is the nuclear physics?

Robert Gouiran: The nuclear physics is just a search of, the search of the structure of matter.

Yogeśvara: The structure, how matter is...

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: If I remember correctly from the little bit of studies that I did in physics, I think it's also the physical definition that material energy is also indestructible, that it's transformable, but not destructible. Is that correct?

Robert Gouiran: Exactly, that the, that the... I was telling the definition of the energy. And if we start from pure energy, absolutely immaterial, pure energy, this pure energy can transform itself in two parts. One is called matter and the other I call anti-matter. And these two parts, they can annihilate together, and then you have back the pure energy. That is definition, our definition, of anti-matter. The anti-matter is what is produced with the matter from pure energy, and what is annihilated by matter to produce again pure energy. You can't, you can't produce our matter, ordinary matter, from pure energy. It's impossible.

Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. That pure energy is spiritual energy, and from that spiritual energy the material energy comes out. That I have already said: From the soul the matter grows. So that is spiritual energy. The basic energy is spiritual. And because the spiritual energy is the cause and the material energy is the effect, therefore in one sense we can say there is no difference between material energy and spiritual energy.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: So if you have got scientific knowledge, you scientifically explain that God is the original source. Then your knowledge is perfect. What is the purport?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Human intellect is developed for advancement of learning in art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology, economics, politics, etc. By culture of such knowledge the human society can attain perfection of life. This perfection of life culminates in the realization of the Supreme Being, Viṣṇu. The śruti therefore directs that those who are actually advanced in learning should aspire for the service of Lord Viṣṇu. Unfortunately persons who are enamored by the external beauty of viṣṇu-māyā do not understand that culmination of perfection or self-realization depends on Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu-māyā means sense enjoyment, which is transient and miserable.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: This I want. You are nicely educated. Now by dint of your education, you prove that background is Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Then your education will be perfect. Otherwise you are one of these fools and rascals, that's all. The particular type of education, mathematics, chemistry, physics, what you have learned after working so hard, now you should by your educational-departmental education—you prove that the background is Kṛṣṇa. Then your education is perfect. That is the verse, idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Satsvarūpa: Yes. "Human intellect is developed for advancement of learning in art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology, economics, politics, etc. By culture of such knowledge the human society can attain perfection of life. This perfection of life culminates in the realization of the Supreme Being, Viṣṇu. The śruti therefore directs that those who are actually advanced in learning should aspire for the service of Lord Viṣṇu. Unfortunately persons who are enamored by the external beauty of viṣṇu-māyā do not understand that culmination of perfection or self-realization..."

Prabhupāda: Nature, viṣṇu-māyā, nature. They are bewildered simply by seeing the nature. Then?

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Absolute, that is absolute.

Satsvarūpa: "Therefore, all the sages and devotees of the Lord have recommended that the subject matter of art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology and all other branches of knowledge should be wholly and solely applied in the service of the Lord. Art, literature, poetry, painting, etc., may be used in glorifying the Lord. The fiction writers, poets and celebrated litterateurs are generally engaged in writing of sensuous subjects, but if they turn towards the service of the Lord they can describe the transcendental pastimes of the Lord. Vālmīki was a great poet, and similarly Vyāsadeva is a great writer, and both of them have absolutely engaged themselves in delineating the transcendental activities of the Lord and by so doing have become immortal.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Just make that Dr. Agarwala also interested.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, he can...

Prabhupāda: He is the also scientist, professor of physics.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: "Defects and Errors in Scientific Research," it will be a title and we will find out all the mistakes that normally found in scientific research. That will be written by Mādhava Prabhu.

Prabhupāda: And add "and how to make it perfect." Find out the defects. Don't be, what is called...?

Rūpānuga: Negative.

Prabhupāda: Negative only.

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Rūpānuga: Svarūpa Dāmodara Prabhu told me that he has a doctorate degree in some science.

Doug: Physics.

Rūpānuga: Physics, a doctorate in physics.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Balavanta: He has a degree, a Ph.D. in physics.

Doug: I don't think it's a Ph.D. I think it's just a masters degree.

Prabhupāda: In physics.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- March 13, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). The jñānavān, the so-called jñānavān they do not care for the Deity-puffed up. But Kṛṣṇa says this class of jñānavān, after many, many births, when he'll be actually jñānavān, he will offer obeisance. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). It is so difficult and easy. A jñānavān, after many, many births, come to this conclusion, "Here is vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). I offer my obeisances." And the same obeisances can be offered by a child without being jñānavān, but the result is the same. If you touch fire after studying the physics and chemistry, and without studying physics and chemistry if you touch fire, the result is the same. So our request to everyone is not to keep oneself in darkness and spoil the boon of human life, but try to understand your position and try to understand how to satisfy the Supreme. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. That is the summary of all Vedic literatures. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And if you try to preach, then you become most recognized person of Kṛṣṇa. Na ca tasmāt manuṣyeṣu kaścit me priya kṛtta... And our mission is to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Saṁsiddhiḥ hari-toṣaṇam. And He says, "In this way I become most satisfied." Then where is the difficulty? (break)

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: So he taught you how to use?

Yadubara: What?

Prabhupāda: He taught you how to use H-bomb?

Yadubara: No, he wasn't teaching that. He was teaching some physics. He was not a very good teacher. There were 1500 pupils in the class, students, and we would never be able to see the teacher, so many students.

Dharmādhyakṣa: He recently retired, and he was lamenting how young people are shunning science now. Young people are not so interested in science. He was also very disappointed that the new scientists were not as well trained as the old scientists and did not have the same desire to serve science.

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: So you can explain what I was talking.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So the idea is that now you have secular state because the religion, as it is being taught today, is seen simply as some kind of dogma that can't be proven, some kind of blind faith. But in the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa is giving scientific evidence, reason, how the existence of the soul can be proven. Religion means there must be soul. But people don't understand how soul is existing. They think it is simply beyond their conception or comprehension. Kṛṣṇa has made it so reasonable to understand the existence of the soul that any sane man would accept. For example, Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Any person can accept that they had a youthful body, childhood body, and then old man's body. The change of body is always there. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. And after this body we can reasonably accept that there is another body. Just as from childhood to youth there is change of body, from youth to old age there is change of body, similarly, old age, death, and then there is another change of body. But in all circumstances I am still the same person. My body is changed, but still I am experiencing that I am the same identity, the same person. So this education is lacking in the universities because, generally speaking, all of the scientists in the universities, they are simply dealing with this body, simply dealing biology, physics, chemistry—simply with the body. So where is the question that this is not science? It is science. It is the science of the soul.

Morning Walk -- November 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There cannot be many ways.

Dr. Patel: You see, our sad-darśana. The Vaiśeṣika śāstra is nothing but the modern science. The Vaiśeṣikas also wanted, were going in search of God by their own way, were they not? The Vaiśeṣika śāstra is nothing but the physics and chemistry and mathematics, in true sense. (Hindi) Sad-darśana. Vaiśeṣika is one of the recognized darśanas of our ancient, glorious past. I think I am not wrong, sir, in that way. You will pardon me if I say, and I mean, press my point further.

Prabhupāda: No, you will say it is in your own way, even if it is wrong...

Morning Walk -- November 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No...

Dr. Patel: And the physics, chemistry, biology, science...

Prabhupāda: Rāvaṇa was the greatest civilized man, but he is considered as rākṣasa.

Dr. Patel: But we are not Rāvaṇas, are we? We are Vaiśeṣikas.

Prabhupāda: No, anyone.

Dr. Patel: We are scientists, Vaiśeṣika scientists. We may not be bhakta scientists, but Vaiśeṣika scientists.

Prabhupāda: Bhakta is the only scientist. All others rascals.

Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, I ask you, that how this experiment with truth can be?

Dr. Patel: The experiment with sciences, we are making experiment with biological sciences and abstract, I mean sciences of physics and chemistry, and that those who are truths already, we are trying to honor. We cannot make truths. Truths are there already settled by God. God, we try to find out what is exactly, and how it is being done. But we are not trying to find out who is doing. That is your point. I understand.

Prabhupāda: No. If the truth is there, there is no question of experiment.

Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Another thing...

Dr. Patel: I mean, ah, I mean, ah...

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa! ( to passerby) (Hindi ) Are you all right?

Dr. Patel: All these sciences, mathematics, chemistry, physics, they have really been advanced by experimentation only. Because we did not know what the truth is behind all these natural phenomena, and we tried to find out the real, how the natural phenomena are, I mean, happening, and that is what the experimentation of the human race was searching out the truth...

Prabhupāda: That is explained in Bhagavad-gītā, tattva-jñānārtha-darśanam. Tattva-jñānārtha-darśana.

Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: But the physical scientists' method, chemistry, biology, is, I mean, this physics, they have to experiment in their.... They are nothing but the finding out the truth behind the phenomena, the material phenomena. That is what I mean.

Prabhupāda: Phenomena is changeable, always changing. Just like this samudra—sometimes here, sometimes there.

Dr. Patel: Yes, right, sir. But why the samudra changes? We go into there, into deep depth of that...

Prabhupāda: That is truth. That is truth. By the yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakro, that is truth. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. That is truth. The phenomena, that is changing. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19).

Dr. Patel: Are you going tomorrow?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: But psychology is also imperfect.

Harikeśa: So, yes, he's going to now connect that with physics. He says, "To discover the laws of connections of sensations..."

Prabhupāda: But physics, physical law, also, you are studying with your imperfect senses. So how far it is perfect? Just like the physical laws. There is heat in the sun, temperature. So you are seeing from long distance, and you are suggesting, "There cannot be any light." So this is imperfect.

Harikeśa: Well, what about the law of physics...? Oh, it's going to run out of tape. (break)

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Dharmādhyakṣa: There was one Kṛṣṇa-kṛpā Brahmacārī. You met him a few years ago, told him to come here, and he saw the prasāda room. He said he has never seen such a well-organized prasādam room, prasādam distribution. Everyone was very well disciplined and what-not. He was very impressed. He'll be coming today at five p.m. He was a physics professor at some college in Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: No, no, all this credit goes to Jayapatākā Mahārāja. Yes. He is struggling from the very beginning. Others who were in the beginning, they have all gone away.

Pañca-draviḍa: He was the first.

Jayapatākā: Only your mercy, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You are always keeping...

Prabhupāda: So supply nice food, prasādam.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Now the Russians also have come to this conclusion, the Russian scientists and astro-physicists, that there are some planets here in the cosmos which actually have people, I mean, has life like human beings. The other day I read a big article on that. Now they agree.

Prabhupāda: They will agree so many things.

Dr. Patel: They will agree later on that the dialectical materialism is not the right thing, but the dialectical spiritualism is the right thing. What Karl Marx said was wrong. But they have started reading the Vedas and all these, Rāmāyaṇa, Mahābhārata, and...

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Then.... Therefore the books are there. The first of all, you have to understand, "Whether I am this body or I am different from body?" This is the first instruction. If you are.... If you are human being, we should analyze the body. We are now scientist, chemist, physicist. Analyze the body. What is the difference between dead body and living body? The dead body is there. The son is crying, "My father is gone." Where your father is gone? He is lying on the bed. Why you say that "Father is gone"? Hm? What is the answer. The father is lying on the bed, the same coat, pant, and bedding, and everything is there. Why you say that "My father is gone"? Where he is gone? He is lying there. Why do you say he is gone?

Brian Singer: We normally say he's dead.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Ekaś candras tamo hanti. Stars, they cannot do anything; they simply glitter, that's all. Glow-worms.

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, one boy joined our temple here, he was attending a very well known college and straight A's in physics, a scientist. So his parents were a little concerned. His father is a very big professor at California Institute of Technology, the biggest technical school in America. His mother is a professor of anthropology, and she is in the family of millionaires from Germany, German industrialists, so they were very concerned. So they came to visit their boy at our temple, and now the mother is coming regularly, giving nice donations and sometimes spending the weekend.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Room Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Hari-śauri: I was reading a very good example like that. These men, they have this what's called divining, that they find water by means of a stick. They lay a stick on their hands like this, and they turn around in different directions, and the stick suddenly dips and points to the ground wherever there's water underground. And it's proven that it works. It's a very effective way of finding water. But no one knows how it works. So they put a suggestion during the Vietnam War to the Marines that they should use this method for finding out the underground tunnels of the Vietcong so that they could find them very easily. So they showed them by experiment that it's practical and it works, so they gave the rods to the physicists, and they checked them all out, and they couldn't figure out how they worked, so they said that because the physicists could not understand how it worked, therefore it was rejected. So they rejected the whole thing. So then the Marines in Vietnam, they heard about it, so they started to use the rods themselves, and in that way they were able to destroy many enemy hideouts. But officially the Marines had to reject it, because the scientists couldn't understand how it worked, so therefore they said that it was not good, it wasn't viable.

Prabhupāda: The scientists' first proposal is, what they cannot understand, don't bring. That is not scientific. Whatever you say, that is not scientific. Whatever they say, that is scientific.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we say, yes, the fundamental and basic requirement is to understand this basic difference between the two principles, life and matter. Now here the Absolute Truth, in the śloka,

ity etat kathitaṁ gurvi

jñānaṁ tad brahma-darśanam

yenānubuddhyate tattvaṁ

prakṛteḥ puruṣasya ca

(SB 3.32.31)

The translation says, "My dear respectful mother, I have already described the path of understanding the Absolute Truth by which one can come to understand the real truth of matter and spirit and their relationship." So here it clearly says that in order to understand these basic principles, one must have at least some idea about the Absolute Truth. And it is quite scientific. Comparing our normal scientific disciplines like physics, chemistry and mathematics, in fact this very principle is utilized. But the scientists, not knowing that the axioms, or fundamental truths, are coming from the absolute source. So this is the basic requirement.

Prabhupāda: I have heard that mathematics believes by some imaginary thing, minus, so on, like that.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: You can... Because we, at the present moment, we cannot understand, except physics and chemistry, we cannot understand life. So as we do not understand life, so therefore the definition by negation is there. It is not physical, not chemical. It is something beyond. But by practical experience we can see that when there is life, a living man wants varieties. That's a fact. Varieties. Otherwise, why we disagree? I have got some varieties, you have got some varieties. So the conclusion should be tested that living condition or life is full of varieties, therefore the kingdom of life, the spiritual kingdom, must be full of varieties. That is the conclusion.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: This is the proof. Consciousness developed and the symptoms are there. Just like we are studying this. Our consciousness is developed. This discussion is not possible by the animals, although it has got the all life symptom. Therefore because our consciousness is developed, we can inquire. Therefore in the human form of life it is the only business to inquire about the Absolute. Now, athāto brahma jijñāsā. The animals, they can inquire where is some food, where is some stool. That much. They have no other power. But when one becomes..., gets this machine of human form of body... The Vedānta axiom is "Now it is the time for inquiring about the Absolute Truth." Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is real human life, when he inquires about the Absolute Truth. Otherwise, it is animal life. And there are so many department of education means inquiries. In the human society, there are departmental education. Physics department, chemist department, mathematics department, this department, that... Why?

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is human life. If there is no inquiry about the Absolute truth, then still he is animal. So those who are simply satisfied with the physics and chemistry, they are still animals. They are not human beings. This is the challenge. Still they have not developed the consciousness. And that inquiry, when it is for Kṛṣṇa, that is the final development. And when he understands Kṛṣṇa, his life is perfect. Then he goes back again to the spiritual world. He's quite fit to live there. Otherwise, he's unfit, he must be here in this material world. And if he understands Kṛṣṇa, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). This is perfection.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Sadāpūta: This slide shows..., these are the laws of nature according to physicists. And the point we make is that this is their understanding of the final cause of things, and it's very limited. Actually, on this one page, these equations describe everything that goes into all the actions and interactions of chemistry according to their present understanding. And, so there are two main points to make about this. Number one, these are very..., these laws describe very simple forces, pushes and pulls between atoms and things like that. And so intuitively it is very hard to imagine why such simple forces should cause anything complex to organize itself together.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Professor Flemings: University of Maryland.

Vṛṣākapi: The University of Maryland. What was your subject?

Professor Flemings: Modern poetry and theater.

Vṛṣākapi: Oh, very nice, very nice. This is, ah, you are a physicist?

Carl Warentz: That's correct.

Vṛṣākapi: And your name is?

Carl Warentz: Carl Warentz.

Vṛṣākapi: Carl Warentz, Prabhupāda, he's from Catholic University, physicist.

Prabhupāda: If you are uncomfortable you can sit on this cot...

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Vṛṣākapi: This is Eugene Thoreau, Prabhupāda. He's an attorney in Washington, D.C. He's helped us very much opening up saṅkīrtana places. Very good.

Vipina: Śrīla Prabhupāda, this is a professor from Catholic University, a physicist.

Vṛṣākapi: I told him already.

Vipina: Oh, did you?

Hari-śauri: Bring one or two chairs.

Prabhupāda: So how do you like our movement, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement?

Vṛṣākapi: He said how do you like our movement?

Room Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: From chemical point.

Dr. Sharma: No, from medicine point.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Dr. Sharma: From medicine point. In physics and mathematics I'll write in those ways, and I'll submit it and let them use it the way they feel like it. Previously I was with the āśrama.

Prabhupāda: Which āśrama?

Dr. Sharma: Kohasat(?)

Prabhupāda: Ācchā.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: You follow that, brahmacārī gurukula, that I've already explained. That should be done. Don't bring any new thing, imported ideas. That will not be helpful. It will be encumbrance. "My experiment with truth"—Gandhi's movement. Truth is truth. "Experiment" means you do not know what is truth. It is a way of life, everything is stated there, try to train them. Simple thing. We are not going to teach biology or chemistry. They are not going to... Our students are not going to... Our students should be fit for teaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. By their character, by their behavior, by their knowledge, that is wanted. Biology, chemists, physicists, and mathematician there are hundreds and thousands. We are not going to waste our time that Gurukula should produce a great grammarian, a great geologist, biologist, don't want that.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Yes, they do that. They are employing in their factory, big, big chemist, big, big physicist, engineer and so on, but they do not bother. They are paying thirty thousand rupees per month salary, Birla. Expert, imported from foreign country, but their sons are never troubled. They know how to utilize that worker of thirty thousand rupees per month and to earn thirty lakhs from him. Why shall he waste his time? He knows how to they earn. They pay a man thirty thousand and through him earn thirty lakhs. Actually, in order to make a balanced society, the varṇāśrama-dharma is very important, cooperation. So these things are meant for the śūdras, and brāhmaṇas are not meant for this.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: No, lust... Suppose lust is... Then lust between man and woman. Then this lust will cause.

Harikeśa: That's a law in physics also, "opposites attract."

Prabhupāda: Yes, and who made the opposites?

Harikeśa: No, that's just the natural arrangement of things.

Prabhupāda: What is natural?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Who arranged?

Harikeśa: That's the complete. No, you see that's complete. Two opposite things, they're like two halves of a circle.

Prabhupāda: No, why, who has made this?

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes.

Devotee: "(indistinct) which developed for advancement of learning in art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology, economics, politics, etc. By culture of such knowledge the human society can attain perfection of life. This perfection of life culminates in the realization of the Supreme Being, Kṛṣṇa. The śruti therefore directs that those who are actually advanced in should aspire to the service of Lord Viṣṇu. Unfortunately, persons who are enamored by the external beauty of viṣṇu-māyā do not understand that the culmination of perfection or self realization depends on Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu-māyā means sense enjoyment, which is transient and miserable.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes, Dacca University next to Calcutta University. Just see how human beings are becoming less than ferocious animals.

Gargamuni: Even one man, he was making a plaque in your name in thankfulness for preaching this Vaiṣṇava-dharma. He was making a wooden plaque, and he was a doctor of physics at the university. And one night they came in and shot him and his whole family, this man. He was very helpful to us while we were there.

Prabhupāda: Only fault that he was making some...

Gargamuni: No, his fault was that he had some education. Anyone who was doing anything... This one boy who was translating your books, he was a very educated person. He was about thirty years old.

Prabhupāda: Hindu.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Our Hayagrīva is not getting any employment. Nobody's interested. "Eh. What is the use of higher mathematics, all this, these things? We have to earn money."

Rāmeśvara: Physics, computer technology, all these things are big.

Gargamuni: And they're prepared to spend lakhs. Some of these technical books cost more than a hundred rupees a volume.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They're charging.

Gargamuni: But they'll buy them.

Prabhupāda: What is the use of philosophizing? Even that Professor O'Connell? He came to me, that "Why don't you give some students?" Means he's going to be dismissed very soon. But he has no students.

Room Conversation with Sannyasis -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: So we have new reviews too from two professors in Finland. We have one who is a man in the Department of Nuclear Physics. He said the Indian astronomers... First... He read the Fifth Canto, with all its scientific descriptions. First he says that he did not think that they possessed instruments to measure distances, but anyway, he said their understanding is truly remarkable. Then he goes on to say... He compares it with Western astronomy. It's a long review.

Rāmeśvara: What did he say about Prabhupāda?

Satsvarūpa: There wasn't much in that way.

Prabhupāda: But they can measure the distance from one planet to another? Their astronomical measurement?

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, I have many pictures. I gave a lecture, seminar, just before I came here at the university, about the nature of the Absolute Truth in terms of science and in terms of Bhagavad-gītā, a comparative study of the concept of the Absolute Truth. And there were many professors from physics, chemistry, mathematics, from philosophy, from biology, and from sociology. It was... Balavanta Prabhu was also there, and a few other devotees. It was quite interesting. And there was a slide show.

Prabhupāda: Balavanta was in Manipur?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. This is in the United States.

Prabhupāda: United States.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: He was a scientist?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He was called naturalist. Yes, he was... He had some background in biology. And to counteract his statement we have also another statement from... This is from Einstein, but another, from Pasteur, this is very suitable for our purpose. (pause) Einstein was against the..., what they call the laws of quantum mechanics. Quantum mechanics is the most advanced stage of modern physics or modern chemistry. But they are..., says that there must be chance. They must introduce a concept of chance in order to explain the nature of the Absolute Truth. In other words, these physical laws, the laws of nature...

Prabhupāda: The Absolute Truth is also chance?

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So he's a mathematician and another (sic:) physist, and you are chemist. So complete science. The pure science is mathematics, physics, and chemistry. So our three Ph.D.s, they are combination of pure science. Nobody can defeat. Mathematics is there, physics is there, chemistry is there. And my sentiment is this, (laughs) I challenge them, "No. Life from life, not matter." So perhaps I challenged first. Or anybody? Then life from life, not from matter?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda did it.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Before 1828 in the history of chemistry, there was these scientists. They thought that something, what happens in the body, in the living body, is different than chemistry in the physics. That is called vital theory.

Prabhupāda: No, Bhagavad-gītā says, nainaṁ chindanti śastrāṇi nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ (BG 2.23). So what is there within the physical world that is not burned by fire? Where is that thing? But these rascals have no knowledge. It is clearly said indirectly. This is called negative definition: "It is not this." And because he has no brain to understand, so therefore Kṛṣṇa is explaining in the negative way that "You cannot cut by any weapon; you cannot burn it; it is never dried up." Because any physical thing, it can be cut, it can be dried up, it can be burned, it is just opposite. So many ways He has described, but the rascal will not accept.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...and these physicists and biologists. We are thinking how to do it.

Prabhupāda: No, here is argument. Here is... A plant is coming. So yoni... The source of birth is called yoni. So yoni is there, the earth. But who begotten this? There must be father. Because we, our experience, without father and mother there is no generation. You prove that, that here is the mother; there is the child. And where is the father? And the father says, "Yes, I am father." Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām. That's all. There must be father. "You do not see." This is not logic. There must be father. So there must be God; otherwise how they are coming? By whose arrangement?

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1977, Mayapura:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. I'll be coming... I already requested Girirāja to make a few engagements so that... I'd like them to speak. This time I will let them speak, our two scientists, because Americans. And I want to see the reactions also. I already know my situation there, and I want to let them speak, and they are very eager to do that. I already talked with them. So I requested Girirāja to make a few very high academic circles like Atomic Research Center. One of our men is very good in quantum physics. He can talk all about this mathematical formulations and a little bit about Bhagavad-gītā consciousness. So that would be...

Prabhupāda: That will be... (chuckles)

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Gargamuni: Yes. We stopped in a college, Acyutānanda and myself, a D.A.B. college, and we spoke to some of these professors of physics, and we showed him the books and especially that Scientific Basis...

Prabhupāda: On the whole I very much appreciated your presentation. I thank you very much.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Girirāja: They like that book, Scientific Basis.

Prabhupāda: The real scientific method is that the life which is in contact with this matter, he's suffering. And the real, I mean to say, enjoyment or peaceful life is to get him out of this condition of material contact. That is the best benefit. But these rascals, they are trying to adjust material things to give him happiness. "You are walking, all right, you take this car." That is not happiness. He does not know that in the car there are so many problems—more danger than walking. This is the mistake going on.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Important man. Recognize him. Make him member.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We will also make some engagements in... There is an institute called Patha Institute for Fundamental Research. They study about nuclear physics. So I am going to arrange for one of our people to speak.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Speak in important institution like that. That will command respect.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He is going to speak about quantum physics and Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: These things the swamis cannot do.

Morning Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So let Mr. Thakur come. He's chemist.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He's applied physicist, and...

Prabhupāda: So you also were present in that meeting with Mr. Thakur?

Girirāja: Yeah.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He also saw the movie that Yadubara had. We also presented a movie, and Mr. Thakur, Professor Thakur, was also watching.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yadubara's movie.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That new one.

Discussions with Devotees and Conversation with Dr. Ghosh -- June 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But they have no background. They are simply speculating. In the first place they have no background. Child. Doesn't know what... Do you think they are knowing?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I saw just little hint. I met an Indian physicist in Emory University. He's quite well known physicist, and he actually liked the idea that we wrote on. He said it's very genuine and very scientific. We have developed this the laws of consciousness from trying ātmā and Paramātmā. The Paramātmā, we say, is the source of all these laws of nature.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Woman? Woman?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, no, Amrtabal Singh is the name. And he told me he didn't have time to talk with me because, he said, he had a meeting. So I told him that I just came to see the director, but since the director is not there I just want to let him know that "We want to hold a conference on life sciences and Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so if you are interested, I'd like to invite you because you're a leading scientist. And the Bose Institute is quite well known. So I'd like you to participate in our conference." Then he asked me, "What is that conference?" Then I started describing about the way modern science is going at this time. "Science says that everything is molecules. So what do you think as a scientist? Now, the way we communicate... I talk with you, and you talk to me, but the way we communicate, science say that these are just chemical reactions. You talk because of some chemical reactions. And so what do you think about this modern philosophy?" Then I started talking about the very unsatisfactory explanations of these ideas according to modern science and trying to introduce concept of Bhagavad-gītā, that "Life is nonchemical and nonphysical. It is spiritual. When we study physics, chemistry and mathematics, we simply study matter, but actually we don't really study life. But modern science says that life is nothing but chemicals.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just explain this.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The other day, when I went from Delhi to Calcutta in the plane, I happened to see that Dr. Chatterjee from Calcutta University. She's a lady, woman, but she's very well known. International scientist she has become. Her name is Asina Chatterjee. And I never saw here, though I was studying side by side in the next building, in Calcutta University. She discovered some drug. That's why she became famous. And she's also a member of Council of Scientific and Industrial Research all over India, and also a member of University Grants Commission. So she told me that she went for a meeting to attend in Delhi, and there was also an engineer who was sitting in between me and her, and I was discussing about our plan for scientific conference on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He was also Bengali from Calcutta. Somehow she became very interested. I was explaining how scientists misleading, thinking that life can be chemical. And I was describing about how life can be nonchemical and nonphysical. So Chatterjee immediately joined the talk. And I immediately recognized that she must be Chatterjee. So I asked her, "Are you Dr. Chatterjee?" I never saw her before, but I just guessed right. She was Dr. Asina Chatterjee. And she became very interested in the talk, and then she was completely agreeing to our discussion that life is something spiritual, beyond physics and chemistry.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I have taken that idea because in the United States there is a conference called Garden(?) Conference, and I want to develop this in the future as a regular feature of our movement, organize this conference all over the world. We'll title as "Bhaktivedanta Vijñāna Conference," and it involves all sources of knowledge. Just like Garden Conference. They have a meeting in Boston, in Harvard, in chemistry, and Garden Conference is in all fields, in physics, chemistry, the humanities. It is very respected all over the academic world. So we also wanted to generate a spiritual scientific conference along these lines.

Prabhupāda: Bhaktivedanta is spiritual.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So he became very interested. That's why he took me in an hour. About five minutes he gave me. Then he extended about an hour to a very interesting talk. And he became very impressed with the ideas about Bhagavad-gītā. And Dr. Kunja(?) asked me, "What śloka are you using from Bhagavad-gītā?" Then I was describing about nainaṁ chindanti śāstrāṇi nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ (BG 2.23). "We're developing that on a scientific language." And he was very impressed with our presentation for the nature of consciousness and quantum physics. So they thought that this is very unique, and they never thought that this could be done. They have great respect for Śrīla Prabhupāda also. Said that they have read Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. And they actually accepted and developed lot of scientific thoughts, appropriating with our current scientific frame from Bhagavad-gītā. So once they have that feeling developed properly...

Prabhupāda: It will further develop.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Many people came?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, some came in the temple. We also gave university, in the physics class, called "Physics for Skeptics," the title of the class. It was very interesting.

Prabhupāda: Now it is clearing. You can go inside.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. (break)

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And then Kṛṣṇa, yes. (laughs) (Bengali) They are not shocked?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Well, they will be shocked. Actually science doesn't know anything about life. That's what I was pointing out today. Science studies only matter, like physics, chemistry, biology, just chemical reactions...

Prabhupāda: Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Bahir artha. Just like the body is the external feature of my life. So this is bahiḥ. Bahiḥ means external. The vairuddhi(?). The external feature is visible. Therefore it is called dṛśya-guṇa, visible modes of nature. This body... (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...is visible part.

Prabhupāda: No, life is not visible to him. He is simply saying, the combination of the modes of nature visible.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Everything they thought, this chemistry and physics, it's going to be all wrong.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they have no alternative.

Prabhupāda: And that is spiritual knowledge.

Bhakti-caru: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: No, how it is possible? You have not, nothing to do with the material nature. You are spirit.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That must be.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...with the whole approach.

Prabhupāda: That must be there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Like there is a physicist in Princeton. His name is Dyson, Freeman Dyson(?).

Prabhupāda: That is inquisitive, jijñāsu. That is there, a class of men, jijñāsu. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtinaḥ. They are pious. "Actually what is the truth?" Jijñāsu. And jñānī. Two third class, fourth class, and two, first class, second class. The first class, second class, is jñānī jijñāsu, and third class, fourth class, ārto arthārthī. They approach God. The third class, fourth class, those who are in need of money or in distress and seeking the favor of Kṛṣṇa, they are third class, fourth class. And the jijñāsu and jñānī, they are first class, second class.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the nature. But they are still pious because they have come to God. And those who are very, very miscreant, they, at any circumstance, they'll never. Dog's obstinacy. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). They are last class.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Few years ago there was a German physicist Schroedinger(?). He wrote a book called What is Life? And he said life could be understood just like physics. Then this Freeman Dyson(?)... He's a very renowned scientist in Princeton University. He gave a lecture in our university at Emory about few months ago. He was speaking about cosmic manifestations of the universe. And I asked a question about this Schroedinger's(?) approach, saying that Schroedinger is a very well known and Nobel Prize-winning physicist. He stated that life could be understood in terms of physics and chemistry. I asked him, "What do you think about this approach?" His answer was "Schroedinger did not know at that time that the physics of modern science, especially quantum physics, cannot be explained without invoking consciousness." That means life is a different entity than normal physics and chemistry. So they are starting to realize, at least to some extent, that life could be completely different process than was planned about few years ago.

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, boy. He says, "The highly developed forebrain and the deeply convoluted cortex have helped him to think creatively. Scientists, as a general rule, are objective thinkers because they base their thoughts on empirical knowledge. Mystics and visionaries, the so-called spiritual scientists of Dāsa and Swami, on the other hand, build up their thoughts on their subjective perceptions. Books on chemistry, physics, mathematics, geography, history, geology, anthropology, paleontology, engineering, medical science, astronomy, etc., are the products of objective thinkers."

Prabhupāda: Big, big words, that's all.

Room Conversation -- October 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kapoor: Doctor Mishra from Delhi University. Physics department.

Mādhava: Yes. Biophysics. He was going to give a talk on the theory of living states.

Dr. Kapoor: Are any of those people from the philosophy department of Delhi University, are they going to speak?

Mādhava: There was some coming from the philosophy department, but I don't think they're going to speak. There was one who's going to speak on the limitations of science. I don't know if his name is listed here. Oh, yes, here it is, Dr. Ramaya. He's going to speak on the limitations of scientific method.

Dr. Kapoor: Is he a philosopher or a scientist? Biochemistry.

Prabhupāda: We are concerned with the scientists.

Room Conversation -- October 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kapoor: Matter has no consciousness, but what exactly it is? And you see, I tell you, matter has no consciousness—this is also an assumption. You see? The analysis of matter has revealed to the scientist, the physicist, that what remains in the ultimate analysis is at least not matter.

Prabhupāda: Matter, when you combine together, reveals some reaction. That's all.

Brahmānanda: When you combine matter together, it just gives some reaction.

Dr. Kapoor: True, but the question remains...

Prabhupāda: Just like soda, acid and soda. Mix together. There will be effervescence. That is matter. And life means gives impetus: "Do this." It is not comparable(?) thing.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Scholar?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Viswas is the head of the physics department, Delhi University. He's very religious, also he's very appreciative. They already know about Śrīla Prabhupāda's activities. So there is one professor called Katak. He's the head of the department of physics at also Indian Institute of Technology in Delhi. He's coming with his father. His father is a chemist, retired. They're also... So like that, many scholars are coming. Also from Jawaharlal University, there's Dr. Mukerjee. He's head of the department of life sciences, coming.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, would you like to sit up for a while?

Hari-śauri: He was just sitting about ten minutes ago.

Prabhupāda: Where is Kīrtanānanda?

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Rāma?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Round-table conference. There will be other scientists from Delhi, like D. S. Kotari. D. S. Kotari is the ex-chairman of University Grants Commission. He's a very well known physicist. He's a very interested... I think he's the most interested in India in our field. He's retired and very respected. All Indian scientific community... Actually, this was his idea, that we set up a round-table conference in Indian National Science Academy. So we agreed to that. We'll have some sort of a debating form. So I'll bring all our members, and we'll have conference in Delhi. Also Krishnamurti... He's the director of television in Delhi. He's going to make some arrangement for us after the conference for the television appearance in New Delhi. Also most of the schools, they want us come and speak on the same topics that we are organizing here.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There are a group of physicists in the world today that... They think that the phenomena and the relationship between life and matter is some sort of a complementary. Just like they took this idea from a physicist called Niels Bohr. He tried to explain the quality of a particle called electron that has two properties. Sometimes is behaves like a wave, and sometimes it behaves like a particle. So he proposed an idea called "complementarity." Taking from that idea, some of the present-day physicists think that life and matter are some sort of a complementary. But we are saying that that is wrong, saying that life is completely different from matter, inanimate matter. We're going to make that stand strong and also make it quite clear in the conference.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, Bhavānanda Mahārāja is here.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Bhavānanda Mahārāja?

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Mādhava: They have such a speaker in physics. He's going to speak that life comes from matter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. That's good. Because otherwise... I looked at the audience this afternoon. First of all, there weren't that many. There was only about fifteen men attending this afternoon's lecture.

Gurukṛpā: Scientists, fifteen.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Fifteen scientists. There were devotees. Our sannyāsīs, GBC men were there. And I looked at them, and some of them weren't that interested, mainly because it's just... It's just too one-sided, I think. There's not enough action going on to keep their attention. I'm going to speak... I haven't spoken to Svarūpa Dāmodara yet. I'm going to right now. I spoke to Rūpānuga, who was in the back, because he's helping to organize. I think it's very good, because gradually, as we hold more conferences, they'll learn to improve their presentation. This is why Svarūpa Dāmodara wanted to begin in India, so that when he finally got to the West he'd be very strong and it would be very good. Here it's a little easier.

Prabhupāda: So not all the doctors who...

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Who is seated over...?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Where is Brahma-tīrtha? He's the Perfect Questions, Perfect Answers, one of the authors. Next to him is Sadāpūta, who wrote two books on quantum physics and the laws of consciousness, demonstration by mathematics that life cannot arise from matter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I read you that in London, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That was Sadāpūta's book that we read in London.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And next to him is Mādhava. His body is like mine-small. So we are making points that modern science doesn't know life.

Prabhupāda: No, you are making point, but there is no reaction from the other side?

Room Conversation With Svarupa Damodara -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But by your mercy, Śrīla Prabhupāda, now I think many will come later. The man who came yesterday is the friend of our chief guest. His name is Dr. Chowdury. He's also a retired architect. He had a strong appreciation of the architectural design of the temple. He said the Gurukula also... They looked all over the Gurukula, and they were very appreciative. So I told him that we are planning to build another auditorium for the Institute and for the ISKCON activities. So they didn't know these things before. This Ghattack, Professor Ghattack, he's the head of the physics department of India Institute of Technology. He told me last night that never expected that such nice things might exist in Vṛndāvana. So he said there is an atmosphere of purity and cleanliness. He was thinking that maybe he could bring his child for the Gurukula.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Make it an ideal institution. Who are you?

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It doesn't matter. "...Bhaktivedanta Institute, it was stressed that life was independent of matter and dependent on higher principles lying beyond the present limitations of physics and chemistry. The assumption that life itself was nonphysical was the key note. The conference was opened by Dr. Prem Kripal, former president of the executive board of UNESCO. Three lectures were delivered by Dr. Thoudam D. Singh, director of the Institute; Mr. Robert Cohen, a geologist from USA; and Dr. Michael Marchetti, a theoretical chemist and student of the philosophy of science; on the fundamental nature of life and matter, new findings in paleontology and their effect on the theory of evolution, and the social consequences of the materialistic view of life.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, I also gave a lecture on the life in its origin. In Mathurā there is one veterinary college, the biggest in Asia, about two hundred scholars. We also showed "Hare Kṛṣṇa Frontier," "Spiritual Frontier" movies. They liked very much. And we're having another lecture Thursday to be given by Thompson in All-India Institute of Medical Sciences. There will be about some two hundred, three hundred scholars from around Delhi. We'll be discussing about life in its origin. And also we are planning to give several lecture in Delhi University, in the mathematics, biology and physics departments.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We have also written books like this. This is a... (Bengali) This is our worldwide preaching program.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) No sentiment—"Come on"—scientific challenge. (Bengali) No theory. (Bengali-Prabhupāda telling about Dr. Kapoor and scientific conference, Fiji, etc.) (Bengali) Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here is Kṛṣṇa-kāliya, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation -- November 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So Agra University, you lectured professors?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, professors and students, mostly the professors, from all departments: physics, chemistry, mathematics, biology, and philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Hm!

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They also asked me to bring a film from the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. So I'm going to show the "Spiritual Frontier" just after the lecture. So I'll go with the Fairchild, the movie projector.

Prabhupāda: Very good. When you have to go?

Room Conversation -- November 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We have, so far, four. But one of the biggest men in Agra Medical College, Dr. Malviya, he became a member. He's a very well known biochemist. So he told me that he's going to contribute articles. We would like members, the professors of chemistry, physics, mathematics, biology.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It seems like there is a good future for Bhaktivedanta Institute, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (pause)

Prabhupāda: Who will be president?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who will be president? Of the institute, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No, tomorrow.