Expressions researched:
"Rama-Krishna Mission"
|"ram krishna"
|"rama krishna"
|"ramakrishna"
Guest (4)(Indian man): You said the approach to spiritual goal, through this way, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Rāma. Okay. Now there is another philosophy which has been preached by Ramakrishna and Vivekananda: "The service of man is the service of God."
Prabhupāda: And why not service of God service of man?
Guest (4): It is not my argument. It is argument of Ramakrishna and Vivekananda.
Prabhupāda: Now you are representing Ramakrishna. You are representing Ramakrishna. That's all. I take it.
Guest (4): Because I am also in doubt about... I want to know the truth.
Prabhupāda: The truth is... The example I have given you, that service of the body means service of the stomach. Service of the body does not mean service of the finger.
Mohsin Hassan: My master, what's your opinion on the Ramakrishna Mission? We have a Ramakrishna Mission in Chicago.
Prabhupāda: Ramakrishna Mission, if I say it frankly, they distorted the Bhagavad-gītā to the greatest extent. Because they presented somebody, Ramakrishna, as God. Ramakrishna said that "I am the same Kṛṣṇa, I am the same Rāma," and they accepted it. But one thing is, anybody can say that "I am the same Rāma, I am the same Kṛṣṇa." First of all we have to see the proof. So many, there are many ways of to understand. So Ramakrishna Mission is pushing on this wrong idea. And another thing is that, supposing this Ramakrishna is the same Kṛṣṇa, then the philosophy is different. Ramakrishna's philosophy and Bhagavad-gītā's philosophy is different, because Ramakrishna says that you can accept any method, every method is all right. But Kṛṣṇa says only unto Him, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). "Give up everything, simply surrender unto Me." Now Kṛṣṇa says one: "Simply surrender unto Me," and Ramakrishna says that we can accept anywhere. So which one we shall accept? Kṛṣṇa's or Ramakrishna's? What is your opinion? If something is spoken by Kṛṣṇa and something is spoken by Ramakrishna, so which one we shall prefer to accept?
Mohsin Hassan: Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That's the answer. Therefore Ramakrishna Mission is misguiding.
Mohsin Hassan: They tell me that..., the Ramakrishna Mission, they offer all kinds variety of books about every religion.
Prabhupāda: We have got varieties of books.
Mohsin Hassan: Yes.
Prabhupāda: We have got at least twelve books, four hundred pages, different ways we are presenting, but our main aim is, end is Kṛṣṇa, to understand Kṛṣṇa through different philosophical thoughts. We have presented, I think. You have not...? You say you say you have seen all these books.
Prabhupāda: You can imagine that God is so insignificant that you can imagine His form. This dangerous theory is going on in India. God is so insignificant that you can imagine at your whims whatever you like. Ramakrishna Mission is also preaching this, and now this big, big sannyāsī, they also preaching this. God is a subject matter for, of my imagination, He is so insignificant.
Prabhupāda: Just like we can say frankly that the Ramakrishna Mission, they are collecting money, huge money from your country, here also, to mitigate the sufferings of the poor people, daridra-Nārāyaṇa seva. But actually you see that how many poverty-stricken people are there in India, and if you go to the Ramakrishna Mission, you will see all the swamis, they are living in royal order. This is going on. But people are still fool that... But your American people now, they are questioning. That one swami, Nikhilānanda, he told me personally that the American people now are questioning that "You collect money for feeding the poor, but when we go to India, we see so many people lying down on the street." So they are questioning. Naturally there will be question.
Bob: So this earth and all is made out of Kṛṣṇa, but is not Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: It is not Kṛṣṇa. Or you can say, Kṛṣṇa and not Kṛṣṇa simultaneously. That is our philosophy. One and different. You cannot say different because these things without Kṛṣṇa has no existence. At the same time you cannot say, "Then let me worship water. Why Kṛṣṇa?" That the pantheists, they say, that "Because everything is God, so whatever I take, that is God worship." The Rama-Krishna Mission says like that. But that's wrong.
Bob: The Rama-Krishna Mission says that?
Prabhupāda: Yes. And the Māyāvādīs. "Because everything is made of God, therefore everything is God." That is their... But our philosophy is everything is God, but not God also.
Guest (1): No. What do you think of the Maharishi?
Prabhupāda: Why shall I speak of others? Then people will be angry. Better not to touch this point. (break) At least, my position in foreign countries is far better than any swami's, up to date. Vivekananda went there in America about eighty years ago, 1893. So Ramakrishna Mission has got about four or five centers, say, within ten in America. But I have got my centers in America and Europe, forty centers, and so many students. In Ramakrishna Mission you won't find so many American boys as followers, but we have got thousands of followers, all young men, young girls. So that is my hope, that even if I die—I am seventy-six now—these boys will conduct this movement. I am sure.
Prabhupāda: The real Bhagavad-gītā is Kṛṣṇa says that "You surrender unto Me." Nobody says, neither Tilak, Gandhi, this Ramakrishna, this Aravindo. Nobody says that. He's made purposefully avoiding his duty. And these rascals are going as dutiful. His duty was to say as Kṛṣṇa says, if he is actually student of Bhagavad-gītā. Here is Kṛṣṇa saying that you surrender, you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. We are doing that. We are not speaking something nonsense.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Ramakrishna Mission, they eat meat.
Guest (2): I don't think so.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Lucille: I don't know about the swamis, but I know a lot of the Vedāntists do.
Guest (2): That's news to me.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Vivekananda says, "What is that, meat-eating?" Kṛṣṇa says, makes division...
Guest (2): Ramakrishna Paramahamsa was the incarnation of Lord Rāma and Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: That is to Vivekananda, not to others.
Guest (2): Was he not realized?
Prabhupāda: That is another question. Don't bring controversial. If you have got Kṛṣṇa, what is the use of Ramakrishna? When you have got Kṛṣṇa original, why should you go to Ramakrishna? A shopkeeper says, "This is the same medicine, sir, but it is very cheap." But a real customer says, "No, I want the original. I don't want this imitation. Give me the original." Accepting Ramakrishna as incarnation, so why shall I go to incarnation when I have got Kṛṣṇa?
Guest (2): Like you said, guru you know. We go through...
Prabhupāda: There is paramparā. So there is symptoms of guru not that everyone becomes guru. These are controversial points. We don't want this.
Prabhupāda: We are manufacturing incense. That I suggested. Sometimes I went to Ramakrishna mission and I saw they are selling incense. So I suggested that "Why don't you..." So I gave them idea how to manufacture.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. So, my father was Vaiṣṇava, but when I invited these Gauḍīya Maṭha sādhus, my father thought that I have invited some sādhus of the Ramakrishna Mission. So he was not very interested. When Tīrtha Mahārāja is speaking, I call my... My father was that time invalid, I called him that "Please come down, there is a meeting of the Gauḍīya Maṭha sādhus." So, he could not resist my request, he came down, but he did not think that some devotees have come. They thought, these Ramakrishna Mission rascals have come. (laughter) So he was not very happy, but I told, he was sitting. He, so the meeting he just criticized. Then when he heard the speech of our old Tīrtha Mahārāja, our old Godbrother, he understood, "Oh, they are Vaiṣṇavas." Then immediately after the meeting, he came down on his feet. "I misunderstood you sir, that you are the Ramakrishna Mission sādhu. I am so glad to meet you. So that is the beginning of my intimate relationship with Gauḍīya Maṭha.
Prabhupāda: That is Ramakrishna mission's morality: yata mata tata patha. Whatever you think, that is your way. Yata mata tata patha.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yata mata tata patha.
Prabhupāda: As many ways you think, that's all right.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is how they define morality.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That you make your own morality.
Prabhupāda: In India, what is going on as "Hindu dharma," it is a bogus thing. It has no meaning. Just like this Ramakrishna Mission, this Vivekananda, this Aurobindo, this Mahesh Yogi, so many others, all bogus. Anyone who is not going in terms of the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's cult or His teaching, he's a bogus. Anyone. Not only in India, all over the world. At the present moment, the real, transcendental spiritual life means to follow the cult of instructions of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Otherwise, everyone is bogus. They're simply wasting their time. They have no knowledge of spiritual life.
Prabhupāda: One rascal comes and says, "I am incarnation of God." Another rascal accepts. It is not like that. "Ramakrishna is God." We do not accept. We must see the inconceivable mystic power. Just like Kṛṣṇa, as a child, lifted a hill. This is inconceivable mystic power. Rāmacandra, He constructed a bridge of stone without pillar. The stone began to float: "Come on." So that is an inconceivable power.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In one of the articles by Bharatiya... There's a man called Bharatiya, in... What is (indistinct) university? He was saying that Nirana Subhas Bose, he wanted to join Ramakrishna Mission. Is this true, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: For future. No. Might be. He wanted to join? Why he should join? Why he did not join?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It was explained that he had a better, great mission, so he should not join, "You should do your..." By that time he was started, fighting for freedom. So he was not allowed...
Prabhupāda: So what was that greater mission?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: For independence, fighting.
Prabhupāda: No. Why he wanted to join Ramakrishna mission? What is the attraction of Ramakrishna mission? What they have done? Ramakrishna mission, what they have done? The Ramakrishna mission is working here in your country...
Prabhupāda: Simply for Kṛṣṇa, there is simply to understand Kṛṣṇa. Anything else-waste of time. But in Kṛṣṇa's connection there are varieties. Does it mean, although the dictaphone is there, still I shall write in my hand? Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot touch this. We don't follow this nonsense philosophy. Unnecessary vairāgya. Śuṣka-vairāgya, dry knowledge.
Devotee (1): Śuṣka-vairāgya.
Prabhupāda: Śuṣka, śuṣka means dry. Oh, it is material, I shall not touch. I shall not touch. Just like that rascal, Ramakrishna, if anyone wanted to give him some money (gesture). (laughter) How, he does not touch money. These rascals, why shall I not touch? Come on, you have got money, George Harrison, spend. Yes, come on, I shall take it, for Kṛṣṇa. We haven't come to this house for living very comfortably and enjoying. No, we have come here for Kṛṣṇa's service.
Prabhupāda: This Māyāvāda philosophy has created this havoc. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended that māyāvādī haya kṛṣṇe aparādhi. "All the Māyāvādīs, they are offenders to Kṛṣṇa." Therefore they cannot make any progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That difficulty is there—offenders. And later on, there are so many institutions. They say that "You can create your God. You can become God." That is going on. "Whatever you think as God, that is God." So how one can make progress under these circumstances? One gentleman was arguing with me... He was supporting Rama-Krishna Mission. He said, "Even stool I consider God. It is God." (laughter) He came to this point. "If I worship stool as God, then it is also God."
Prabhupāda: No, no, we have got definite goal, Kṛṣṇa... We have got definite goal, Kṛṣṇa... (break) ...Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He has got His form, He has got His place, He has got His name, He has got His pastimes, and we want to enter in that kingdom.
Yogeśvara: He says that he thought that in our movement we were following Ramakrishna who had discovered everything.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Ramakrishna we kick out. We don't.
Yogeśvara: He says he's not familiar personally with him.
Prabhupāda: Ramakrishna is bogus.
Prabhupāda: But not a single soul became a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. There is no history. Yes. So far we know, that by reading Bhagavad-gītā, it is meant for making a person devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). But before my coming here, so many swamis came, and they preached on Bhagavad-gītā, so many scholars came, but not a single soul became a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa.
Professor: Yes, because other... So, for instance, you have the Ramakrishna Mission...
Prabhupāda: What the Ramakrishna mission has done?
Professor: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Ramakrishna mission has done this, that they have learned to drink wine and eat meat, that's all, from the Western countries. That's all.
Professor: Yes. This is so.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is their contribution. And they have spoiled the Hindu culture.
Professor: Oh. Yes?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Because Vivekananda said, "Oh, what is the harm there, in eating? You can eat whatever you like. It doesn't matter in religion." It was the first. And he himself was eating anything. So all the Ramakrishna mission sannyāsīs still, they are eating meat, egg and everything, especially in America. Yes. Fish is no consideration. That is daily affair. And the turkey,... Yes. Instead of preaching here, they have taken the Western method. And Vivekananda's preaching is like Western missionaries-open hospitals, school...
Professor: You are right, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He had no spiritual knowledge. So therefore it has not been successful.
Prabhupāda: They are not standard. We are following Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, standard, and they have got their own manufactured way. So we don't recognize them. Our process is evaṁ paramparā prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Paramparā. What Kṛṣṇa said, the disciplic succession will say the same thing. But they are speaking differently. So therefore we don't take them as bona fide. They are not bona fide. And from external point of view, we have got so many literatures, so many branches, so many devotees, within six years. But they haven't got such thing. Even Ramakrishna Mission. They are working for the last eighty years. And I have worked only for six years. And my result is eighty times more than them. They also acknowledge.
Prabhupāda: If we do not follow strictly our regulative principles, routine work, then the whole scheme will be failure. Then, instead of Christianity, it will be "churchianity." You know this word, "churchianity?" You know? Yes. Everywhere this churchianity is going on. And the real aim is how to enjoy sense, under different cover. That is going on all over the world. Therefore it has come to that Rajneesh. Ramakrishna Mission, Rajneesh mission. Vivekananda has given preached, Yata mata tata patha, Rajneesh also, a mata. They have got also followers. Everyone can manufacture his own way of religion. So sense enjoyment, there is free field.
Prabhupāda: Ha? The astrologers, they sometimes approached. Ah, what is the position of this man, Vivekananda, Ramakrishna, Gandhi? And they say something. So he has said about Nehru like this. Astrologer, he was hesitating, then he said. It was spoken by one very respectable person, Śrīdhara Mahārāja.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...last almost one hundred years, eighty, eighty-five years. So how many followers they have got?
Karandhara: They have made no significant impression on anyone.
Prabhupāda: No. (break) Ramakrishna is God. Kālī is God. And they offer prasādam, what is that? Chicken...
Karandhara: Chicken, turkey, even meat.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Karandhara: Trivikrama Svāmī went to their monastery in Laguna Beach. So they were serving meat. Trivikrama said, "Why do you eat meat?" And they said, "That doesn't matter. What does it matter what you eat ?"
Prabhupāda: Why don't you eat stool? This question was raised by Mālatī. One man said like that. She said, "Why don't you eat stool? Why you discriminate?" (break) Ramakrishna Mission has done the greatest harm to the Vedic culture. (break) ...said, "Why you are afraid of God?" He said like that. "Why you are afraid of God?" One Christian padre, priest, he said, "You are coming from India? How you are speaking like this?" He was astonished. But this rascal spoke like that. "Why do you believe that you are sinners? There is no sin."
Prabhupāda: He may say nonsense. The fact is this. That if he is sama-darśinaḥ, equal, then why he is particularly aiming to the lower class? That means he is not sama-darśinaḥ. He has not come to the stage. He is simply talking nonsense. Sama-darśinaḥ means he is equal to everyone. That is sama-darśinaḥ. Sama-darśinaḥ does not mean to get a cheap adoration, popularity, I go to the poor. That is their Ramakrishna Mission. They also are doing that same thing. Daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā, like that. Why daridra? Why not real Nārāyaṇa? Just like this morning we read nārāyaṇa-pade. Never said daridra-nārāyaṇa-pade. To the great. Surrender does not mean to the lower.
Prabhupāda: That is the śāstric injunction. Kīrtana means about Viṣṇu. But these Ramakrishna men will say, "Why not Kālī?"
Guest (1): No, no, no, they never say that.
Prabhupāda: But they say that.
Guest (1): No sir. I am attending their lectures, classes, and discussing with them.
Prabhupāda: Vivekananda's philosophy is yata mata tata patha: "Whatever you have got, your opinion, that is all right." They organize Kālī-kīrtana in competition to...
Guest (1): Yes, in their mandira. In the mandira. In the mandira their kīrtana is Kālī-kīrtana.
Prabhupāda: But that is not recommended in the śāstra. Śāstra is: śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23).
Dr. Patel: I studied the Puranian philosophy by Huxley. I think somebody must know, he was very good. He's stressed bhakti-mārga. Huxley, Julius Huxley.
Prabhupāda: Well, if he's a bhakti-mārga, then he would not have eulogized Ramakrishna.
Dr. Patel: He is wonderful.
Prabhupāda: He has eulogized Ramakrishna.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi.)
Prabhupāda: Yes, he has eulogized Ramakrishna, this Huxley. You know that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I didn't know.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ramakrishna was a first-class Māyāvādī.
Dr. Patel: Which Ramakrishna?
Prabhupāda: This Ramakrishna Mission.
Mākhanalāl: Wasn't that Ramakrishna who said he gave away everything; he had nothing more except...
Prabhupāda: What Ramakrishna? Don't talk of these nonsense. Simply they have misled. That's all.
Dr. Patel: Simply you bhaja Kṛṣṇa and don't think anything else. And you get all your intelligence there.
Prabhupāda: Therefore Kṛṣṇa has said, mām ekam. "Don't go to these foolish rascals." Mām ekam. Otherwise you'll be misled. Because they are misleaders, rascals.
Prabhupāda: Now, Swami Nikhilananda of Ramakrishna Mission... Just hear, doctor. Ah. Swami Nikhilananda of Ramakrishna Mission, when I went to America, I met him. He said that "The Americans are asking that 'You take money from us for serving the poor.' But when we go to India, we simply see poor men are lying on the footpath. So what you are doing with this money?" You see? This is a plea for collection of money, "to serve the poor."
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...yuktena. Now just this woman is carrying a load on her head, how she's keeping balance. He cannot do that.
Dr. Patel: That is Rāmakrishna Paramahaṁsa said. No, no, that is not Indira Gandhi. Rāmakrishna Paramahaṁsa said the same thing as you say...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: ...that she should remain...
Prabhupāda: It is not Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. This is śāstric.
Dr. Patel: While we're talking about all these things, but the mind is in the load there. Their mind is on the load.
Prabhupāda: So... (break) ...by abhyāsa yoga-yuktena (BG 8.8), everything can be done.
Prabhupāda: If I have to offer my obeisances and surrender, why not to Kṛṣṇa? Why an imitation Kṛṣṇa? Why? Just like if you go to purchase some medicine, the shopkeeper may say, "Now, here is a medicine equal to this medicine, and its price is less." So no sane man will purchase. "Why I shall purchase the imitation for being less price? Give me the original." (break) ...the life of Ramakrishna. It is said that at the time of his death he said to his disciples, especially to Vivekananda, that "I am the same Rāma, I am the same Kṛṣṇa," and he took it. And he preached that "This Gadadhara Chatterjee, Ramakrishna." That's all. Then if he is referring to the original Rāma and Kṛṣṇa, so why not take the original Rāma and Kṛṣṇa? What is the proof? Simply by his words one can accept? Just like he is taking the proof, Arjuna. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Our business is to point out who is not a saint.
Dr. Patel: But don't point us out. We want the tree to be a saint.
Prabhupāda: That is our business. Preacher must be. (Hindi) (break) ...can I speak something? Because their position is to take Ramakrishna as a saintly person. Saintly person there may be. Just like Rāvaṇa. He also underwent severe penances, but just to fulfill his personal desire, or Rāvaṇa was so devotee of Lord Śiva that he was cutting his head and offering to the Deity. Is it? You know, everyone?
Dr. Patel: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So why he is called rākṣasa, not a saintly person? What is the reason?
Mahāṁsa: That does not show any logic, because He is in everybody's heart, how can anyone be Kṛṣṇa? (break)
Prabhupāda: He is in the heart of a dog also. Then dog is also Kṛṣṇa. So why one should go to the temple? He can worship his dog at home. If this logic is all right. (break) ...the verdict of the Rāmakrishna mission, "You can worship whatever you like. That is God." And therefore they have manufactured this word, daridra-nārāyaṇa.
Prabhupāda: In the name of religion you do all nonsense rascaldom, and the leader approves, "Yes, you can do." Vivekananda did it. "Yes, there is no difference between eating meat and not eating eat in terms of religion system." He preached this, and all the sannyāsīs of the Ramakrishna Mission they eat meat, they drink, they have woman secretary, everything. This Chinmayananda is also like that. I know his whole mischief. Unless one is purely Kṛṣṇa conscious, one cannot give up all these bad habits. This is the test.
Prabhupāda: Now this Ramakrishna said, "I am the same Kṛṣṇa." So if we give respect to Ramakrishna because of his being the same Kṛṣṇa, why not go to the same Kṛṣṇa directly?
Yogeśvara: He says, he says this is the answer from Ramakrishna. When you have a thorn in your foot, you take another thorn and pluck it out, and afterwards, you throw them both away.
Prabhupāda: So Bhagavad-gītā does not say. Bhagavad-gītā says that "You surrender unto Me, and sustain this." Therefore he has misled. He did not understand what is Bhagavad-gītā, and he misled so many fools. That is his business. One thing is, Bhagavad-gītā says, Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. And Ramakrishna says that "You can accept any path." So this is against Bhagavad-gītā.
Yogeśvara: He says, of the two choices, he likes Ramakrishna's better.
Prabhupāda: That is his choice. But if he says that "I am the same Kṛṣṇa," why should he differ? (French)
Yogeśvara: He says to accommodate, to accommodate them.
Prabhupāda: No accommodation. No. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), and Ramakrishna says that "Whatever path you select, it is all right." So it is completely against Bhagavad-gītā principles. And, and he said... His name was Gadadhara Chatterjee. So at the time of his death, he declared to Vivekananda that "I am the same Kṛṣṇa, I am the same Rāma." So they believed in that, without any evidence, and they started this Ramakrishna mission. This is the history.
Yogeśvara: He says that he recognizes that, and he says it is one interpretation, as you have your interpretation, as there are many. He doesn't think that these interpretations are as important as the art of knowing how to live, which is, he thinks, the essence of all religion, how to live. He says the interpretation is not so...
Prabhupāda: But he thinks Ramakrishna lived very well than others?
Yogeśvara: I think one... If I've understood, he's insisting on one point. That is the that the public opinion is actually the most important thing, just as this Ramakrishna expressed the spirit of the Gītā in a way that was most popular, was most favorable to the public.
Prabhupāda: Who is that public? Amongst you, who accepts Ramakrishna.
Karandhara: Amongst the scholars and the true Vedic authorities in India, they don't accept Ramakrishna at all. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: It is difficult word to translate in English. He says at his time, Ramakrishna's was the expression of the mass of the people.
Prabhupāda: No.
Karandhara: What mass?
Prabhupāda: That is false.
Karandhara: Ramakrishna's popular in the West because of his skillful propaganda... (French)
Yogeśvara: He says that "Well, in a sense, we have to accept that Ramakrishna was expressing the sentiments of the public because he lived amongst the public."
Prabhupāda: No, that is his false understanding.
Karandhara: Still, that doesn't make it valid. Hitler, Hitler lived amongst the public too. And he was a...
Prabhupāda: No, I'll give you example that mass of people in Jagannātha Purī, in Vṛndāvana, many thousands, ten thousands, twenty thousands people, every day come, to worship Jagannātha, to worship Kṛṣṇa, but there is a Ramakrishna temple in Belurmath, or somewhere else—nobody goes. So how do you say the mass of people are attracted to Ramakrishna? And similarly, recently, our foreign students went to Vṛndāvana, went to Navadvīpa, by thousands, but nobody goes to Ramakrishna Mission temple. Then other point: Ramakrishna Mission is working in the western world almost one hundred years. Find out their disciples so many we have got. So your statement, "It is meant for the mass of people," it is false. I have given you proof from India and from here also. That means throughout the whole world. In India nobody cares for Ramakrishna. That I have given you proof. You go to Vṛndāvana. There nobody cares for Ramakrishna. You go to Jagannātha Purī, Haridvar, so many holy places. Nobody cares for Ramakrishna. So your idea, that it is for the mass, it is false.
Prabhupāda: Now, sometimes he is going this side, sometimes goes that side. Sometimes he says, "Mass of people," and again he says, "Not the number of people." What is mass of people? That is the number of people. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says, for example, he can see the mass of people in Italy, they are Catholic. But that doesn't mean he's going to be impressed by the Catholic philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Now, now, we have to... He was comparing that the mass of people, they take to Ramakrishna. That I have proved. They're not, the mass of people, not at all interested... That I have proved. That is my answer.
Jyotirmayī: He said he was not saying that thousands of people were following Ramakrishna...
Prabhupāda: What is the mass of people mean?
Yogeśvara: He says Ramakrishna, whether he knew it or not, he was expressing a sentiment of the people at that time.
Prabhupāda: At that time. That is finished. So that is not permanent settlement. But Kṛṣṇa's, Kṛṣṇa's, I mean to say, supremacy, at least for the last five thousand years, is intact. Now, he says Aurobindo, Gandhi, Ramakrishna. They're all gone. They came and gone. But Kṛṣṇa philosophy is truth, and it is standing, and it will go on standing.
Yogeśvara: He says then we've made the full turn again. We've come back to the beginning. (French) He said so we've actually come back to the beginning of our discussion again which is that real religion has to be judged by the actions of men.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that you can judge. Here is the action of the men. Now the young men and boys and girls are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And who is taking to Ramakrishna?
Pṛthu Putra: He received information that to follow, with some interest, that to follow what Kṛṣṇa says and like that, we can solve problems. (French) And personally, he respects you.
Prabhupāda: Thank you. That's all right. But thing is that we must know that he has spoken about Ramakrishna and Aurobindo. They also center their propaganda on Kṛṣṇa. Just like I already told. Ramakrishna said, "I am the same Krishna." That means he takes to Kṛṣṇa. Aurobindo, he has written "Life Divine." That is his explanation of Bhagavad-gītā. He takes to Kṛṣṇa. This Maharishi, he has also presented Bhagavad-gītā; he (has) taken to Kṛṣṇa. So their importance is by taking to Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, they are valueless, nobody
Prabhupāda: Do you remember this gentleman? He said to you that "Meat-eating... We must eat meat in the West. Maybe in India, because of the climate, you can get away with that."
Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom, another rascaldom. He's a first-class rascal. That was the support by Vivekananda. He was eating everything. All the Ramakrishna Mission, they say like that, "Oh, without meat-eating, without drinking, you cannot stay." All rascals.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says that "You and Me and all these soldiers, we existed before, we are existing now, and we shall exist in this way in the future." Where does He say that "We shall be mixed up"? He never says. And these rascals, they have got so many parties, the same thing. Where do you get this idea? There is sayujya-mukti, but Kṛṣṇa never says that "You take it." All this Ramakrishna Mission, all these, this (indistinct), he gives the example that rivers come from different sources, but when it comes to the ocean it is mixed up. Why don't you see within the water? Within the water there are big, big fishes, they do not mix up with the water. They see superficially the water. This is going on.
Professor: According to existential philosophy or Indian philosophy, like for instance the Ramakrishna and Vivekananda and all that...
Prabhupāda: They are not philosopher. They have no philosophy.
Acyutānanda: The people say that just like Rāmakrishna, the disciples presented Him as God, but He never said He was God.
Prabhupāda: But then where is the śāstra? Three things: the devotee or saintly person, śāstra and guru. He has no guru. He has no support from the śāstra. (laughs) So he's a fool, rascal number one, and he is God. He was a illiterate priest. He had no knowledge of śāstra. Besides that, in the śāstra it is said that "Those who are worshiping other demigods, their intelligence is lost." So he was worshiping Kālī. So he had no intelligence or spiritual realization, and he became God? So these things can be accepted by other fools and rascals. But those who follow śāstra, they will reject immediately.
Prabhupāda: People are not taking seriously about Kṛṣṇa's teaching. That is India's misfortune. They're bringing in so many competition of Kṛṣṇa. Is Kṛṣṇa... And "Kṛṣṇa... Rāmakrishna is as good as Kṛṣṇa." This rascaldom has killed. They have done the greatest disservice. Instead of Kṛṣṇa, they have brought one rascal, Ramakrishna.
Bhāgavata: They have big maṭha in Bhuvaneśvara.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Bhāgavata: In Bhuvaneśvara, they have big Ramakrishna maṭha. Vivekananda School, library, so much land, everything, very organized.
Prabhupāda: So we can do that. You have to convince people. There is no question of making competition with them. But you, you can preach your own philosophy anywhere.
Guest (3): With that happening with the people in Orissa...
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Guest (3): ...try to convince them: No, that is false and this is the way.
Prabhupāda: No, their Ramakrishna Mission allurement is that daridra-nārāyaṇa-seva and hospital. That is their only allurement. They have no program. Nobody is attracted by their philosophy. And what philosophy they have got? Never mind. We are not concerned with them.
Prabhupāda: Vivekananda liked to say, he challenged Ramakrishna, "Can you show me God?" He said, "Yes," and he showed him God and then he became disciple.
Guest (1): Well, could you correct me if I'm wrong. We have a society called Ramakrishna Society, a society in Burma. Those people who founded this society and are practicing Kṛṣṇa culture, they don't wear those things, or they don't chant in their temple, but they do all sorts of social welfare type of thing. Is there any difference between...
Prabhupāda: Ramakrishna Mission is not Vedic. It is a creation of Vivekananda's concoction. It is not Vedic. Just like they created a God, Ramakrishna. So that is not a Vedic sanction, that you create any fool rascal, a god.
Paramahaṁsa: He said it is Vedic because the answers he is giving are not his opinion or concoction, but he is giving from the Vedic knowledge or the Vedic scriptures instead of making up his own opinion. That is the meaning of Vedic; it is based on the Vedic teachings exactly.
Guest (1): But the Ramakrishna wasn't.
Prabhupāda: No.
Guest (1): They formed their own way.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Copeland: And what is your relationship with, say, the Ramakrishna Mission?
Prabhupāda: Oh, we have no relationship. We don't accept them as any authority.
Dr. Copeland: Why not?
Prabhupāda: Because they are not doing according to śāstra. They are doing whimsically.
Dr. Copeland: But they are doing very good social work.
Prabhupāda: That social work has nothing to do with spiritual work.
Dr. Copeland: Does this organization do social work?
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the best social work. We are giving the best education, best knowledge, best hope of next life. And what they are giving? They do not know what is next life even.
Prabhupāda: About hundred years ago Vivekananda came, and he stayed in New York, but these people... When I came, I asked, "What is...? Do you know Vivekananda?" They said, "No, we do not know." I had to find out, search out, where is Vivekananda's center. It was not very prominent. Nobody was going. So for hundred years they worked, this Ramakrishna Mission. They could not establish even half a dozen centers in America. And I established forty centers within six years. And in each center there is devotees not less than twenty-five, up to 225.
Indian Man (2): Jawaharlal Nehru was representing the India for so many years.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And therefore he has ruined.
Indian Man (2): He is ruining since our, before born, in 1930.
Prabhupāda: Well, that was the beginning, but he completed the finishing touch. Sometimes he came to Vṛndāvana—I was there, retired—to open a Ramakrishna Mission hospital, and he stayed there the whole day. He came in the morning and went back to New Delhi in the evening, but not a single temple he visited. Where thousands of men are coming to see the temple, but he, the prime minister, he did not visit not a single temple.
Brahmānanda: So the Ramakrishna philosophy...
Prabhupāda: Ramakrishna philosophy is nonsense.
Brahmānanda: I know. (laughter) They say it doesn't matter what kind of dress you wear.
Prabhupāda: But "They say..." They are rascals. They can say anything. Chagale ki na khaya pagāle ki na bale: "A madman, what does he not say, and a goat, what does he not eat?"
Prabhupāda: We have to take philosophy from the ācāryas. Ācāryopāsanam. They are not ācāryas, neither they follow the ācāryas. They do not follow any ācāryas, either Śaṅkarācārya or Madhvācārya or Rāmānujācārya. They have their own philosophy. Ācārya, the Ramakrishna, he used to worship Goddess Kali, but even they do not do that. Eh?
Brahmānanda: No. They don't even have deity worship even to Goddess Kali. They are so advanced...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So where they stand? They have no platform.
Brahmānanda: They have one candle.
Guṇārṇava: Oh, yes. I went to that, one candle, once. They were just playing...
Prabhupāda: Then why they have established Ramakrishna's mūrti? If they worship candle, then why they install Ramakrishna? That is the flaw. They have no standard of knowledge.
Guṇārṇava: Ānanda Prabhu was mentioning that he was speaking to one of the sannyāsīs of the Ramakrishna mission, and they were very concerned because a lot of their disciples were leaving the mission and joining our society. They were very concerned. Their society is not at all expanding.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That was begun long ago. For their hospital, formerly... (bell ringing)
Viśāla (in distance): All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda!
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Retired medical practitioners, they used to join. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. But nobody is joining now.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, the Māyāvādī says, "Anything is as good as anything else."
Prabhupāda: Yes. How rascal they are. Anything else... This is Ramakrishna Mission's. They are rascals. These rascals, they do not know anything, and still, they have made a missionary activity.
Yaśomatīnandana: That is also propounded by him only, that "You can do anything as long as you know that you are not this body, you are soul." I heard that one day he went into the Muslim mosque and said, "Today I am a Muslim, so I can eat beef today. Tomorrow I am a Christian, so I can eat this, because I am not this body."
Prabhupāda: That was done by Rāmakrishna also. And when he wanted permission from the proprietor of the temple, that "Now I shall practice the Muslim way of religion. So I shall eat beef," so the proprietor said, "Kindly go out and practice it outside." (laughter)
Brahmānanda: Rāmakrishna ate stool because he said, "Stool and prasādam are one."
Prabhupāda: Hm? He ate stool?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Where does he say so?
Brahmānanda: His disciple... One of his disciples told us.
Dr. Patel: Disciple has said, but...
Brahmānanda: As an experiment to show that it was all one, he said that he ate stool.
Prabhupāda: No, of course, I do not know about stool, but he wanted to eat beef.
Dr. Patel: Meat.
Prabhupāda: Beef.
Dr. Patel: Because he tried to worship God in the form of Muslims.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So he wanted permission from the proprietor of the temple. "Now I am going to experiment Mohammedan religion, so I want to eat beef." So he said frankly that "Now you have to go away, sir. I cannot allow this." Then he stopped.
Prabhupāda: Rāmakrishna men say, "You worship any demigod, you go to God." Kṛṣṇa does not say. They say, "There are as many ways." And Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekam. They're all against śāstra. All against śāstra.
Yaśomatīnandana: Someone was telling me, and I was telling that if somebody is not following the particular characteristic of a saintly person mentioned in the śastra, they cannot be accepted as a sādhu. So he was trying to prove that some sādhus, so-called, who eat meat, and who are drinking, they were actually great paramahaṁsas. And then I... He said that because in the previous ages there is mention of... In the śāstras there is mention that there were many ṛṣis and munis who were eating meat.
Prabhupāda: He knows them. He is such a rascal that he knows only and nobody knows. That is the verdict of this Rāmakrishna Mission.
Indian man (2): South Indian community brāhmaṇas and in Goregon, Mullan, Timpu, Nartinga(?), everywhere. In a year they have about eight to ten saptahams are there. Saptahams. The Nārāyaṇī and that Nepuk Odhari(?), that children are chanting every day all these things. (indistinct) And the saptaham (indistinct) (break)
Dr. Patel: He saw the people are coming. And then he was climbing on the top of the roof and shouting, "My boys are not coming?" "They will come. Don't worry."
Prabhupāda: Don't bring Rāmakrishna as authority.
Mahāṁsa: And those of the Vivekananda or Ramakrishna āśrama, there is only one senior devotee that they have now, he is the president of the Hyderabad branch. His name is Ranganath.
Prabhupāda: Oh, Ranganath, yes.
Mahāṁsa: And one day one of our regular devotees, he went to see him and said, "What about in America there are so many people, they are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa?" So he says, "In America also there are many fools." So he is blaspheming like this, how can we cooperate with such people?
Prabhupāda: No, we cannot cooperate. But if there is meeting we can prove them that they are fools. (laughter) That's all.
Prabhupāda: ...God, they do like that. They give this example, "In such and such yajña, ṛṣis were eating meat; therefore we shall eat meat." In the Rāmakrishna Mission, sannyāsīs, they say like that.
Śravaṇānanda: At the Ramakrishna Mission school in Madras near a football field, there is one slogan on the arch that says, "The playing of football will bring one closer to heaven than the study of the Gītā."
Prabhupāda: Just see. Has Neccolla(?) carved this?
Śravaṇānanda: He said, "Tear up all the big tulasīs..."
Dr. Patel: Is it a fact? We don't know.
Prabhupāda: It is a fact if he says.
Śravaṇānanda: Yes. It is written right there, it's written right there. They say the playing of football will bring one closer to heaven than the study of the Gītā.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Vivekananda taught this.
Yaśodānandana: In Hyderabad there is a cook who used to cook for the Rāmakrishna Mission, and he said they used to cook any kind of meat.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Acyutānanda: I said, "Did you ever cook human meat?" He said, "If they told me, I would have done that also." There was nothing beyond their diet. "Anything they told me to cook..."
Harikeśa: I mean, after all, all this talk about God was simply there because of man's desire to explain the unknown. He saw a thunderbolt and...
Prabhupāda: It is unknown to the rascal man. It is known to the sober man. (laughter) He should become sober instead of becoming a rascal. That is required. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne (BG 5.18). Ācāryavān puruṣo veda: "He knows, who has accepted the ācārya." This is Theosophical Society, I think. Huh? That trademark. Or Rāmakrishna Mission.
Acyutānanda: No, Salvation Army.
Prabhupāda: Salvation Army, oh.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They only have about four or five temples, centers in America. There is no Deity established in the temples, only some big...
Prabhupāda: Now recently they have established one temple of Rāmakrishna in Vṛndāvana. Nobody goes there. Nobody goes there.
Prabhupāda: But who cares for Rāmakrishna Mission? Hindu monk, but who cares for the Rāmakrishna Mission? For the last eighty-five years they are working. How many Hindus they have made? Simply bogus propaganda. They advertise that "We have made all Americans..." But where the Americans? They picked up two American ladies, that's all. Where is the Hindu sādhus eating meat?
Prabhupāda: Foreign devotees, they are joining this movement not because it is a Hindu culture. They take it as a real spiritual culture. Otherwise why, for the last hundred, two hundred years, the Hindu sannyāsīs, yogis, were going there? Who did accept it? Did anybody? The Rāmakrishna Mission, Hindu monk, within the eighty-five years, how many Hindus they have made? You can count maybe a dozen only. Huh? Did they make any Hindus, European, American young boys? And it is the Hindu custom that sannyāsīs eat meat?
Prabhupāda: What you have heard from the authorities, if you speak, you repeat that, that is real speaking. Then pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt: then you'll be guru for the whole world, if you don't manufacture. So what is the difference between our Kṛṣṇa conscious and others? They manufacture ideas. Just like Ramakrishna Mission, manufacture: daridra-nārāyaṇa sevā. Where is...? Nārāyaṇa is there, Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa. Where is this word, daridra-nārāyaṇa? He manufactured.
Prabhupāda: Whenever you are hungry, whatever nonsense foodstuff is offered to you, it is palatable. Is it not? Because, after all, it is the appetite which eats, not the foodstuff. Foodstuff may be very, very nicely prepared, but if you have no appetite, it is finished. You know the history of Ramakrishna? Did I say? Yes. So he had no appetite, and he very tactfully said, "Oh, you are not my wife. You are my mother." And he became Bhagavān.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So if he had no appetite it means he was transcendentally situated?
Prabhupāda: No, no. Not transcendentally. In his young time he used so many women that after marriage he was impotent. So he could not use, and he made a tact that "I see all women as my mother, even my wife." And that made him famous, this jugglery.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, there's another thing I noticed, that in the pictures very often of Ramakrishna and his mother, his wife, whichever one she is, they show...
Prabhupāda: No, they show that "This is husband and wife. Ramakrishna was so advanced that even his wife, he left her, considering, 'She is my mother.' By worshiping mother Kālī he has become so perfect that sees all women as mother."
Prabhupāda: "Mother's prasādam." The rascals say, "It is mother's prasādam."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Durgā, Kālī-prasādam.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The Ramakrishna Mission, they take mother's prasādam. And they call...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And you will also be mother's prasādam.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Sudāmā: Even they kill fresh, Śrīla Prabhupāda, sometimes they will kill a cow who has some disease in liver, and then they will eat and they will all die...
Prabhupāda: Well, they manufacture so many ways. That does not mean we have to support it. We accept that these are animals, that's all.
Prabhupāda: The Ramakrishna Mission man came to see me. He said that "You dress like American. Otherwise, nobody will take you as important."
Acyutānanda: Nikhilananda...
Prabhupāda: "And I don't want to be important. I have no dress. If you pay for it, I can dress. I have no money. I know how to dress as a European. As business man, I was doing that. But not this shabby dress. You must give me four set of nice dress, (laughter) changing every alternate day. I know how to do it, but have no money."
Kīrtirāja: He said they have..., these translations of Aurobindo and Ramakrishna are modernized.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Kīrtirāja: I think they are modernized and compromised. That's why they are so popular, because you can do whatever you want...
Prabhupāda: It is not popular, not very.
Kīrtirāja: Yeah, and they aren't even popular, no.
Dayānanda: Popular amongst the mūḍhas.
Prabhupāda: They are mūḍhas. They do not know anything, and they write books.
Prabhupāda: The Communist movement, it is simply now Lordism (?). Just like there are many rogues and dacoits. They plunder money and sometimes give to the poor. So this is another edition of the same thing, one Rāvaṇa to another Rāvaṇa. Just like Ramakrishna Mission-daridra-nārāyaṇa-theory only, and that is also not perfect. It cannot be perfect. Communist theory is to take the money from the capitalists and distribute it to the poor, to the mass people.
Pañcadraviḍa: He showed up in Hong Kong. He said that "There are two great influences in my life: one Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who taught me service..., who taught me devotion," and he said, "Ramakrishna, who taught us service to man." He also showed up with one woman sannyāsīni or something.
Devotee: Service to man. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Especially woman. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: They all come to see the devotees. These foreign devotees, they are enchanted to see them. All these times we were seeing the foreign, foreign, those padres, the Christians. Now we are seeing the sanātana...
Prabhupāda: And another the thing is that Ramakrishna Mission has constructed temple of Ramakrishna. Nobody goes there. It is lying barren.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They try to categorize these modern Hindu deviators, like Vivekananda and Ramakrishna. They try to put them as ācāryas also.
Prabhupāda: All rascals. They are not ācāryas.
Prabhupāda: If anyone hears very attentively, that means he's innocent. He should be given attention. And one who says, "Why Kṛṣṇa Bhagavān? Ramakrishna Bhagavān." Oh, that's rascal, immediately. Take him, rascal. That's all. Finished. Created God. Huh? This Ramakrishna Mission has created God. God cannot be created. God is God. This is anthropomorphism. Is it not?
Prabhupāda: But you do not expect that this movement will be accepted. In India the so-called yogis, Rama Krishna Mission—they are also being afraid of. There are so many... But if we remain sincere, even we are feeble, new-born, nobody can kill us. That is a fact. Just like Kṛṣṇa when He was three months old, attempt was made by Putanā to kill Him, but the Putanā was killed.
Prabhupāda: They will be automatically finished. Just like the Rāmakrishna Mission, who are advertising that they have got wonderful importance. They are now finished. They are simply making false propaganda in India.
Kīrtanānanda: I think before you came, Bhāgavatam was unknown.
Prabhupāda: Unknown, yes. The Ramakrishna Mission published one Bhāgavatam commentary. You know that? Farce. They, these Ramakrishna Mission people have done the greatest harm to the Vedic culture. Of course it is not taken very seriously, Ramakrishna Mission.
Prabhupāda: In Vṛndāvana they have got hospital and Ramakrishna temple. Who is going there? This is practical example. In our temple, thousands and thousands of foreign boys and girls are coming, and who is going there? It is because actually, if they did something, they should at least gone there out of inquisitiveness: "Oh, where is Vivekananda?" Nobody going. Not even to pass urine there. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is mentioned in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Any process you accept, rejecting devotional service, the result will be that there is no profit. You simply labor for nothing, as much as to beat the husk, you'll never get the rice, you will simply be tiresome, that's all. Just like so-called religion. There is no faith in God. There is no need of God, and "religion." This is nonsense. Religion means without God? This is going on. God, you can accept anyone, Ramakrishna Mission. Any rascal...He was a fool, illiterate rascal, Ramakrishna. He became God. No standard, and they are propagating Ramakrishna Mission. As we are preaching Kṛṣṇa is God, they are preaching Ramakrishna. And who's accepting them? For the last hundred years, they are preaching. So who has become a devotee of Ramakrishna?
Prabhupāda: All the yogis, svāmīs are there. How it is possible? The Ramakrishna Mission, they are working here for the last hundred years. What they have done? If they had actually preached something, so so many American boys and gentlemen are coming to our temple, we cannot give them place. We have to find out some other, and who is going to the Ramakrishna temple?
Pradyumna: They have empty house.
Prabhupāda: If actually Vivekananda preached something, out of inquisitiveness they would have gone there. So "We have heard so much about Ramakrishna and Vivekananda. Let us see what is there." Nobody goes. They do not know even the name. And we are already advertised all over the world, Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement. At least, everyone knows. Who knows Ramakrishna, Vivekananda?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There was a man who came from Calcutta about two months ago, a Bengali, and in fact we were class friends in Calcutta when I was studying in Calcutta. And I discussed this problem with him, why so-called Bengali intellectuals are not attracted to our movement. And his answer was that the Caitanya movement was mostly for less intellectuals. For those who are educated, they want to be followers of Ramakrishna and Vivekananda. In fact, they have a society called Vedanta Society. All the Bengalis get together...
Prabhupāda: And waste their time. The rascals waste their time.
And they discuss... So I was a little mad at him, this friend.
Prabhupāda: Because the real fact is they do not want to give up meat-eating and fish-eating. Therefore they like Vivekananda. That is the real reason. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement, Vaiṣṇava, they have to give up so many things. That is the disease of the Bengalis. And Vivekananda is recognized only in Bengal. To some part, not all.
Prabhupāda: Now in Vṛndāvana, you know we have got our temple. So the Ramakrishna Mission, they have got their temple also. In our temple, thousands and thousands of these Americans came, and not a single one went here. If they had preached anything, then why these American boys and girls are not interested, "Let us see where the Ramakrishna Mission stays." They do not know even. There are many present here who went to Vṛndāvana, and none of them were interested to see. Why? lf there was any propaganda... This is practical proof. Why none of them were interested, "Oh, here is also Ramakrishna Mandir, let us go here"? Nobody. Is it practical?
Indian woman: Yes, but I thought Ramakrishna... Many times I get devotees who say to me, "Oh, he's a rascal." I say, "I don't know, I can't say rascal." I don't read him, but he inspired me so much. And I don't know what's wrong. Am I wrong or...?
Prabhupāda: Now what is the philosophy of Ramakrishna?
Indian woman: He does not say that Kṛṣṇa is God. (indistinct) and I was very young at that time.
Prabhupāda: If you want to discuss, there is points of discussion. (laughs) Yes. He worshiped Kali, is it not? Everyone knows it. Do you know that? And by worshiping he became God. Do you agree to that?
Prabhupāda: No, he was a big worshiper of Kali. And he was meat-eater also, Ma Kali's prasāda, that unless one eats that prasādam he cannot become a devotee. So this was his position, that he worshiped Kali, and later on by worshiping Kali... His picture is there, mother Kali's embracing. And he also preached yata mata tata pat: "Whatever path you take, accept, that is all right." Is it not? So do you think it is all right? He worshiped Kali and he said yata mata tata pat. You agree to this? Now, Ramakrishna says yata mata tata pat. And Kṛṣṇa says... He became Ramakrishna, identifying himself with Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa said mam ekam, and now he's becoming Kṛṣṇa, he says yata mata tata pat. Just see. When he's actual Kṛṣṇa, he says mām ekam, and when he became imitation Kṛṣṇa, he says yata mata tata pat. Kṛṣṇa has changed his views. (laughter) Just see, this foolishness is going on.
Prabhupāda: Those who are worshipers of other demigods, they are hṛta-jñānāḥ. Hṛta-jñānāḥ. Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura gives his comment, hṛta-jñānāḥ naṣṭa buddhayaḥ, one who has lost his intelligence. So by worshiping the demigod Kali he is to be considered as hṛta-jñānāḥ, one who has lost his intelligence—and he becomes God. Is it possible? One who has lost his intelligence, he becomes God. With that lost intelligence. And this is the proof that on account of lost intelligence, he says yata mata tata pat. Kṛṣṇa says mām ekam. Sarva dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). And when he became Ramakrishna, same Kṛṣṇa is speaking, yata mata tata pat. So he has changed his view. We have to accept this? And how he gave up his wife, that's a long history, I don't wish to discuss. We know everything. So we cannot accept something which is beyond the instruction of śāstra.
Prabhupāda: I'm talking of this Ramakrishna particularly. There is no śāstra siddha. Whimsical, sentiment, that's all. So far his yata mata tata pat is concerned, at last he proposed, "Now I shall worship according to the Muhammadan process. So I have to eat cow's flesh." So he was living in that temple... What is that temple in Calcutta? Daksinesvari. So the temple was owned by one big zamindar. So because it is temple, he cannot take... Of course, in that temple Kali was there. So they are taking fish and flesh. That was not objectionable. But he, when he wanted to take cow's flesh, so he wanted permission from proprietor, "Sir, I shall now practice according to Muhammadan system. So I take cow's flesh. So I want your permission." So he said, "Sir, I've given you so much licenses, but if you ask this, then I'll ask you to go out. I cannot give you this permission." Then he stopped Muhammadan way of worship. This is whimsical.
Prabhupāda: Another Godbrother used to say Muragī Mission, Chicken Mission. (laughter) He was so much against this Ramakrishna Mission and Vivekananda, so much. He knew all history of Ramakrishna. He became impotent. He was woman-hunter and therefore uneducated. In the village he was simply hunting after this low-class woman. Therefore his brother got him married. When he was married he was impotent. So therefore he planned, "Oh, I see everyone mother. You are my mother." And people said, "Oh, he's so realized that even his wife is his mother." Rascal. Where is that another person in the Vedic culture, Vyāsadeva, or, they are also married, who has called his wife mother?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everyone but the wife.
Prabhupāda: No, no, why one should not call a wife a mother? Is that very great advancement? But this rascal was impotent, he had no other alternative, so he manufactured some idea and people thought, "Oh, he's so devotee of goddess of Kālī that he sees even his wife as mother." This story he told me by Guru Mahārāja personally. He was talking with me privately somewhere, although I was a bad householder. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: So we have got our temple, that is considered the best temple in Vṛndāvana. You can show the pictures. So thousands and thousands of Americans went to Vṛndāvana for our temple and other temples. But there is another Vivekananda, Ramakrishna āśrama, nobody went there. Not a single. So what preaching they have done, from practical point of view? So many men went to our temple. They had no inquiry even that "We have heard that there is a Ramakrishna Mission Temple here. Where it is?" It is not..., Vṛndāvana is not a very big city. Everyone knows. Nobody, not a single person went there. And they visited other temples. So what kind of preaching, hmm? What do you think?
Prabhupāda: Just see. How bogus he was. No, when I go to met in Hollywood that, in the beginning that Prabhavananda, the rascal said that "Ramakrishna was formerly Caitanya Mahāprabhu." He began like that. Then I could understand "What a rascal he is, and I have to waste my time." So I did not answer anything. I said, "Thank you very much for your meeting," and I went out. This Ramakrishna rascal's first proposal was that Ramakrishna Thakura was formerly Caitanya. This is beginning. He was so rascal.
Indian devotee (2): No, they all very pleased. They are all very pleased there. I say, when you can get off and Prabhupāda again comes, take prasādam, you can get off on that. They are waiting, but they will not take prasāda unless Prabhupāda's... They are about, oh, about two hundred people nowadays. This temple here, all garden full?
Prabhupāda: Yes. So they liked, but I spoke very strong thing against Ramakrishna.
Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Because you spoke the truth, facts.
Prabhupāda: Just see how rascal they are. My Guru Mahārāja every step condemned this Ramakrishna Mission and Vivekananda. He said frankly that if there are any impediments for our movement, that is this Gandhi and Vivekananda. He said frankly. Hodge-podge. Gandhi's also hodge-podge. He was a politician, and in politics he mixed some spiritual ideas, hodge-podge. And this Vivekananda was also politician. His name was recorded in the government as "sannyāsī-politician." Because after returning from America, he began to preach to make the poor man rich, and these weak, fatty, and so on, exercise. So the government took it that he's, under the dress of a sannyāsī, he's preaching social and political upliftment. So his name was recorded as "sannyāsī-politician."
Gargamuni: We can see practically that this society, your society, is replacing this Ramakrishna Mission more and more.
Prabhupāda: Why Ramakrishna Mission? We are far above the Ramakrishna Mission.
Prabhupāda: He said like that, "You are working, why you are giving credit to God?" This is Vivekananda's realization. And he created God, a illiterate priest, he become God. Because he said, "I am God." That is the proof.
Jayapatākā: Because he said?
Prabhupāda: "I am God. I am the same Rāma, same Kṛṣṇa." Therefore his name is Ramakrishna. He was Gadadhar Chatterji, and he said to his disciple, Vivekananda, first-class rogue, that, "I am the same Rāma, same Kṛṣṇa." So he took it. This is evidence. Because Kṛṣṇa says "I am the Supreme." So he said, "I am the same Rāma, same Kṛṣṇa." This is the evidence. If Kṛṣṇa can say, he can say also. This institution is the most harmful institution for Vedic culture.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I said if you keep them dogs, what is the use of United Nations? You cannot make the dogs united. That is not possible.
Commissioner: Yes. Therefore recently in Tirupati we have been thinking of starting a training institute along with Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan.
Prabhupāda: Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, they have no idea.
Commissioner: They have no idea. Ramakrishna Mission we asked.
Prabhupāda: They have no idea.
Commissioner: They don't have people. They said, "We don't have men even for our own missions."
Prabhupāda: No. How long they can go on with false pretense? And these people, they have no idea what is spiritual life. It is a profession for collecting money.
Mahāṁsa: Everything he was saying is what he has learned from the Ramakrishna Society.
Prabhupāda: There are so many gentlemen who have become poisoned by this nonsense.
Indian man: These children, they are coming from which place?
Hari-śauri: France and...
Prabhupāda: The smaller one from France and the bigger one from America. International.
Indian man: And their parents also there.
Prabhupāda: They are also here. We are a society, so the gṛhasthas are there, brahmacārīs, sannyāsīs, vānaprastha. All status of life. Missionaries, they have got only sannyāsīs. We have got all.
Indian man: The other missionaries?
Prabhupāda: Just like Ramakrishna Mission. They have got only sannyāsīs. No gṛhasthas. But we have got gṛhasthas also.
Prabhupāda: I went to see the Ramakrishna Mission head, Prabodhananda Swami. So just by seeing me, he immediately said that Thakur was formerly Gaura Hari.
Indian man: What Swamiji? Gauḍīya? Gaura Hari.
Prabhupāda: Gaura Hari. (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Ramakrishna Thakur, Thakur Rama... He was formerly Gaursundara. Gaurasundara
Prabhupāda: They are not going to do all this protest against Transcendental Meditation.
Hari-śauri: No.
Prabhupāda: That means here they are feeling the weight. You see? These protests, this combination, this endeavor to collapse our..., that means they are feeling more weight. And what is this movement, Transcendent...? They never formed against any case, anything, Transcendental... They know that is farce. There are so many other groups. Yogi Bhajan, Transcendental Meditation and what is he? Guru...?
Hari-śauri: Guru Maharaji.
Prabhupāda: Guru Maharaja. So many. Ramakrishna is not very prominent. Sai Baba. (aside:) Little, little, everyone. Who asked for them? Aurobindo. Even Aurobindo. Who will protest against Aurobindo?
Prabhupāda: What is freedom? That "Whatever you like, you do."
Indian reporter: No, not that.
Prabhupāda: So then what is freedom?
Indian reporter: Whichever religion I like, I am free to follow it.
Prabhupāda: This freedom means you can manufacture your own religion. And this is freedom. They want this freedom, that you can manufacture. Yato mata tato patha, as the Ramakrishna Mission says, that "You can manufacture your own way of religion."
Prabhupāda: And where is the evidence? Anyone can say, "I am incarnation." (laughter) Any rascal can say.
Mr. Malhotra: Anyone can say. (laughing)
Prabhupāda: What is the proof? Just like this Ramakrishna, he was an illiterate priest, and at the time of his death he said to Vivekananda, that I am Kṛṣṇa, I am Lord Rāma, and he accepted. He accepted. (Hindi conversation) Let him create one motorcar. Why he's asking, "Please sir, give me car." That's all. He is such a great man; bogus. People are foolish persons, they are deviated by these bogus rascals. That is going on.
Indian man: No, but what Ramakrishna Paramahaṁsa...
Prabhupāda: Ramakrishna, how he become paramahaṁsa if he does not know the śāstra? That is the difficulty. Everyone becoming self-made guru, self-made avatāra, self-made saint. That is the difficulty. Without any reference to the authentic śāstra.
Indian man: So it's a very revealing thing, you deny Ramakrishna Paramahaṁsa...
Prabhupāda: I don't deny. You accept, you accept. My point is unless it is authoritatively mentioned in the śāstra, we reject.
Prabhupāda: ...day one Hindi gentleman came. He presented a picture, India's map, and all the whole India is full of avatāras: Vivekananda, Ramakrishna, this, that. This is India.
Dr. Patel: They might be vibhūtis. You can call them, but...
Prabhupāda: No, no, same thing. What vibhūtis they have got? Vibhūti of cheating, that's all. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Aldous Huxley. He is useless. Anyone connected with the Ramakrishna Mission is a useless. Immediately take it.
Rāmeśvara: But his movement is so nonsense, he has women sannyāsīs. Swami Māyādevī (laughter). I've seen a picture of his advertisement. "Join our camp..."
Prabhupāda: The woman sannyāsī, Rāmakrishna Mission has.
Rāmeśvara: He's... What is it? Śivānanda? Divine Light. They advertise, "Come to our summer camp for yoga practice, and our women will teach you." They are swamis.
Gargamuni: His students sued him one time because he preaches brahmācārya.
Prabhupāda: I have seen their sannyāsī kissing woman on the street.
Rāmeśvara: On the street.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He came to see me in London, and I saw in the street there was some woman; he is kissing her. I have seen sannyāsī.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Such... They have created this Vivekananda and Cinmayanandas, rascals, so many rascals. They have created such situation that Indian people are mostly in darkness, although God appears here in India. They have executed such thankless task, this Vivekananda, Cinmayananda and so many Māyāvādīs. "Ramakrishna is Bhagavān." And what is his certificate that he is Bhagavān? "He said." No. He said "I am the same Rāma. I am the same Kṛṣṇa." So he is taking shelter of Kṛṣṇa to prove his Godhead. So why not go to original Godhead? Why shall I take the imitation? He is maintaining his position that "I am the same Kṛṣṇa." "So then same Kṛṣṇa is authority. So why shall I not go to same Kṛṣṇa? Why shall I go to you? Your authority is also Kṛṣṇa. So why shall I give up original Kṛṣṇa and take to an imitation Kṛṣṇa? You may be the same, but I am not a very intelligent man. Why shall I go to the imitation? I shall go to the original."
Prabhupāda: The so-called religious books, they're presenting—all bogus hodge-podge. (laughter) Humbug imagination, that's all. There is no fact. Just like Ramakrishna Mission. What religion they have got? Anyone? This religion, that religion, Jainism, Sikhism, this "ism," no nothing. Simply bogus propaganda.
Prabhupāda: There are so many that, Sakhībhekhī. All women. Sometimes he—I have heard all this—he will observe the menstrual period. (laughter) To laugh or lament? "He's in menstrual period." This Ramakrishna did. He was also, because Jagamati experimented.
Hari-śauri: Oh, he became a woman sometimes.
Prabhupāda: Yes, sometimes. And there was menstrual, menstruation period. He became so perfect, there was menstruation. (laughter) This rascal Ramakrishna did it. And he was going to make experiment of the Muhammadan realization by eating...
Hari-śauri: Meat.
Prabhupāda: ...go-maṁsa, cow's flesh.
Hari-śauri: I think you said that he...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: ...was refused entry into some temple because of that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He was such a rascal. He was actually impotent, and he could not have sex with his wife, and he addressed, "Oh, you are my mother." And these rascals took: "Oh, he is so advanced that he could see his wife as mother. Oh, self-realized. By worshiping Kali he has become so perfect, he sees everyone as mother." Such a rascal he was, and he is God. These things are going on.
Prabhupāda: Ramakrishna, he was worshiping goddess Kālī. It is condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante 'nya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20), that "Anyone who is worshiping a demigod, he is lost of all sense." So this man, by losing his all senses, worshiping a demigod, he became God. People do not take reference from Bhagavad-gītā, that "A demigod worshiper has no sense, and he has become God?" What kind of God? Senseless God?
Prabhupāda: And God's definition is aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47), jñāna. God means full in knowledge. And a man who has no sense, he has become God? From logic. Jñāna-vairāgyayaś caiva. God means he has got full knowledge. And this man is senseless and he has become God. Logic, how you can defy? And they're accepting: "Ramakrishna is God." How you defend it? I am giving this logic. Defend.
Satsvarūpa: I've given that argument, and people have said back, "Oh, he didn't say he was God." They say... He said that...
Prabhupāda: No, you are advertising, "Ramakrishna Avatara." "Bhagavan Ramakrishna." "Bhagavan Ramakrishna." Everyone is God—then why you are after God? You remain. You are servant of your wife, your prostitute. Then you are also devotee because everyone is God. A prostitute-hunter is also devotee because he's devoted to the prostitute and prostitute is God. Then why you search out another God? Hm? Everyone is God. Why you search out another God? Why you bring Ramakrishna God? Better remain satisfied with your prostitute, your dog.
Prabhupāda: But the Ramakrishna rascal saying. Kṛṣṇa says, yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). If you worship demigod, you go to the demigod. You can say...
Satsvarūpa: God Himself says.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. We have not to take the instruction of a man-made God. We have to take instruction of the real God.
Prabhupāda: We cannot understand what is the position of this land acquisition. They'll remain silent?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's some political thing behind it. That's sure.
Prabhupāda: The political was Ramakrishna Mission and Tīrtha Mahārāja.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really? Ramakrishna Mission. Envious. Even though they're not near here, still they can understand how prominent we would become.
Prabhupāda: We have already become more than, more important than.
Prabhupāda: They requested me to change the dress. I have... The Ramakrishna Mission, that "Unless you dress yourself..." "I have no money. You give me three dress for public.(?) Then I shall do it. I know how to dress. In my business life I was dressing like that, but now I have no money. You give me money." (laughter) I told them that. (laughs) "I know how to dress like a gentleman. Every day it must be changed, must be nicely ironed. But I have no money. You need not required to teach me. I know how to dress like an European gentleman. And I have no money."
Prabhupāda: Ramakrishna Mission, in the beginning they asked me, "You be in coat and pant." Otherwise nobody will hear me.
Gargamuni: Ramakrishna suggested Prabhupāda use coats and pants.
Prabhupāda: Their sannyāsīs, they dress in coat-tie.
Gargamuni: In the Book Fair there's other... Ramakrishna is there, Aurobindo. They have their books, but no one is going. (Prabhupāda chuckles) They have booths, Ramakrishna Mission, Aurobindo, Yogananda.
Prabhupāda: I don't think they have so many books also.
Gargamuni: No, very few books. The stalls are also very small. Our stall is three times as big as theirs. And their books are these cheap paperbacks.
Prabhupāda: Their days are finished.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There wasn't any influence of that Ramakrishna Mission yet?
Prabhupāda: No Ramakrishna... Who cares for?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They had no... I mean, nowadays they are so widespread in their effect.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Oh... Because people are degraded. Who cared for Ramakrishna?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In those days it was much purer.
Prabhupāda: Still who cares for Ramakrishna?
Prabhupāda: Scholars, they theorize. I say practical. Scholars want to say, want to show how much their imaginative power is strong. That's all. And they all speak nonsense-Ramakrishna. And my point of view is how to give people practical hints so that they may be raised from this rotten condition.
Prabhupāda: Keep your position respectable. Don't create many enemies. It is very simple. Why should I try to understand the rascal Gandhi philosophy and Ramakrishna? I take it from the beginning, they're useless. Why shall I waste my time? I know it is useless. They'll require superficial touch, no important. I therefore say in every..., "I do not know who is this."
Prabhupāda: Patitānāṁ pāvanebhyaḥ. Pāpī tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo, tāra sākṣī jagāi-mādhāi, brajendra-nandana jei, śaci-suta hoilo sei. Kṛṣṇa is coming. He has come as Caitanya Mahāprabhu to deliver these pāpīs and tāpīs. Whole process is scientific. It is not (laughs) the Ramakrishna, Vivekananda. It is not that. What do they know? Or Gandhi. They are also trying for the betterment, but they do not accept the standard process. Everyone is trying. That is struggle for existence. So who is fittest? The fittest is the devotee. He'll survive.
Prabhupāda: But he quotes from the Ramakrishna.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In his book that he wrote, Dr. Kapoor quoted the great authority Ramakrishna. (laughter)
| Page Title: | Ramakrishna mission (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Labangalatika, MadhuGopaldas |
| Created: | 13 of Mar, 2010 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=134, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 134 |