Indian man: But most of the scholars, they say...
Prabhupāda: He is not a scholar. He's a rascal. We have to follow the ācāryas. The ācāryas never said. There are so many ācāryas. They never say. So, we have to follow, ācāryopāsanam, not the rascals. We cannot worship the rascals. Worship ācāryas. They are guide. So śāstra says... Find out sa evāyaṁ mayā te 'dya yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. Purātanaḥ, Kṛṣṇa says that imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1), "I spoke this science to Vivasvān, the sun-god." So if you calculate sun, this sun, Vivasvān, is the father of Manu, Vaivasvata Manu. And if you take, calculate, it becomes forty millions of years. So this Bhagavad-gītā is spoken, according to the Bhagavad-gītā, according to the version of Kṛṣṇa, forty millions of years ago. Now He says that science was known to the people by paramparā. And that paramparā is lost somehow or other. Therefore as... (break) Suppose you are born in Bombay, but you do not know how the state is being managed, then what is my jñāna? If you do not know how the state is being managed then what is your jñāna? That jñāna is, dogs and cats, they have also jñāna. How to eat, how to sleep, how to use sex life, how to defend. This is not jñāna. Everyone knows it. If you know God, who is conducting the whole, that is jñāna. So if you do not know who is the supreme controller...
Indian man: Knowing God through śāstras is one thing, but can a realization come in life as Arjuna had?
Prabhupāda: No.
Indian man: As Arjuna had the viśvarūpa-darśana.
Prabhupāda: No, that is not... Arjuna said, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). For that jñāna you have to become śiṣya to the ācārya or it is useless.
Indian man: But then you can get the realization, what Arjuna got, viśvarūpa-darśana.
Prabhupāda: Yes, everything. If you go, tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā upadekṣyanti tad jñānam (BG 4.34). This is this process.
Indian man: If it is not too much a personal question, have you had a saksaska?(?)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise, why I am talking?
Indian man: But what was your experience of that saksaska?
Prabhupāda: Now how you will understand unless you come to the science? (break) Gandhi manufactured. The Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the battlefield, and he wanted to draw the conclusion of nonviolence. What is this? Kṛṣṇa says kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame... "In this battlefield you are talking of nonsense, that 'I'll not fight.' " He says so and Gandhi wanted to make it nonviolent. Just see how from the very beginning he distorted. And people accept it. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ (BG 3.21). He was a śreṣṭha, leader. So whatever he will say people will accept. The whole India became spoiled.
Indian man: But the way to saksaska (?) is only...