Prajāpati: Śrīla Prabhupāda, why has it taken so long for a pure devotee to come to the West? Has the West been so sinful that no pure devotee has come before Your Divine Grace?
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Don't be sorry. At that time you were so sinful that you could not receive a pure devotee.
Karandhara: Yes. Once in a lecture a lady asked you why hadn't you come sooner, and you just said, "Well, you weren't ready for me."
Prabhupāda: Yes, "Because you were not ready." (laughs) Yes, I told, yes. Now the Western boys, the descendants of the Western people, they are fortunate; therefore they receive Kṛṣṇa. Kona bhāgyavān jīva. It is Kṛṣṇa's desire that "These people are suffering so much; let some devotees come here." So you are all devotees. You have come to join together.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, during the progress of evolutionary process, suppose if the individual soul falls down from the human platform, the individual soul falls down from the human platform to some other lower species, but in the course of again evolutionary process, at some stage along the path he'll come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Is this...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, that is the process. Evolution means to come to that end, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is real evolution. If one misses the chance, then again falls down. But the natural progress is that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But ultimately he will come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes, ultimately everyone will come to Kṛṣṇa. Not Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but Kṛṣṇa. At the end of this world, devastation, they enter into the body of Kṛṣṇa. They remain there.
Hṛdayānanda: That wouldn't be very good for a devotee.
Prabhupāda: Huh? But they have no sense. These birds are feedies(?) or their bodily extension is so much. I think they're feedies(?).
Hṛdayānanda: They're what.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: What? Very nice.
Prabhupāda: Just see how they are experienced. They're not afraid of the ocean, although they are very small. They know how to save him. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). Kṛṣṇa is there within the heart. They are giving, "Now get off." They immediately get off.
Hṛdayānanda: Boy. That's Viṣṇu within their heart?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...nice, very broad and clean. (break) ...can overflood the whole area, but no. "Up to this, no more, sir." Under whose order they are working? There must be some control.
Prajāpati: They would say it's under the control of the moon. The moon controls the tides.
Prabhupāda: Yes, the moon is controlled by whom?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They'll say, "By nature."
Prabhupāda: Nature is controlled by whom?
Bali Mardana: Who is controlling the moon?
Prabhupāda: That is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram: (BG 9.10) "Nature is controlled by Me." Therefore He is absolute controller. But He is not controlled by anyone. Therefore He is absolute controller. Just like a, what is called? Magnetic stone?
Hṛdayānanda: Magnet?
Prabhupāda: Magnet, it attracts.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Iron filings.
Prabhupāda: Iron filings. But who has given this power to this magnetic stone? You cannot give.
Karandhara: They say, "It's just there by nature's arrangement."
Prabhupāda: That is answered: "Nature is controlled by God."
Karandhara: Well, they prefer to leave nature as nondescript. When they say or designate as "nature," they prefer to leave that nondescript, nonspecific.
Prabhupāda: Why? That means insufficient knowledge. They do not wish to describe it because your foolishness will be discovered.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They will say that "I can do that. That is done by nature."
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In the case of a magnet, suppose if I take a piece of iron and if I magnetize it by electrical current, it will act as a magnet. So they say...,
Prabhupāda: Yes, but the iron is not manufactured by you. Neither the magnetic stone is manufactured by you. You take nature's product and utilize it. That is not your original creation. So what is credit to you? You can transform. That is in your hand. Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). There are two things: material and spiritual, inferior energy and superior energy. Jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho. The living entities, they are superior energy. Why superior? They can take the materials and handle. Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat. That is your superior energy. You can take the matters and combine it and make something else. That is the world, going on, matter and spirit. You have created your own body by your desire. So that you can do, but the materials, the body, you cannot create. That is not in your power.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are trying to make it.
Prabhupāda: Again "trying." It is already there. What is the use of your trying? The same thing. Already dog is barking, but one is trying to imitate. That's all. But people will go to see the imitation barking by purchasing ticket, and the real barking they'll neglect.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is called, "new discovery."
Prabhupāda: What is that new discovery? Barking is already there. What is new discovery? You are simply imitating barking, that's all. Barking is already there. What is discovery?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But that imitation is just new.
Prabhupāda: No. Imitation is flattery. That's all. Imitation is the best way of flattery. That's all.
Karandhara: Actually they are proving our point because as persons they can imitate the Supreme person, but He made the original. If they were not persons or living entities, they couldn't imitate God's creation.
Prabhupāda: Now, in your laboratory, by mixing hydrogen, oxygen, if you produce one ounce of water, what is your credit? Here is vast water already.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say it was not done before in the lab.
Prabhupāda: It is done already; otherwise where the water came? You do not know who did it. That is your ignorance.
Hṛdayānanda: So it just enviousness. They're just envious.
Prabhupāda: Foolishness. Enviousness means one must be able. But they are not able. Simply foolishness.
Bali Mardana: They have created artificial gems, like...
Prabhupāda: Just like you are a powerful man. I am a powerful man. I become envious. That is allowed. But I'm not powerful, I'm trying to imitate you, it is foolishness.